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#6166116 - 02/02/16 10:42 AM Trophy Size not what you where sold
EddieWalker Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tyler, TX
There is a thread going on at FB about a guy who booked a hunt for a black hawaiian based on it's size. The ad said it would be 38 to 41 inches. Then he was later told that if he took it with a pistol, it would be the new world record. From what I can understand, the outfitter doing the booking wasn't the guide. The guide told the hunter to shoot the one on the right, it was the biggest one. On the ground, it turned out to be 34.5 inches. Nothing close to what he had been sold. The outfitter is going to make it right and has offered a full refund. I applaud the outfitter for doing this since I feel this is the right thing to do.

What bothers me, and why I bring this up is all the comments from others who are attacking the hunter for pulling the trigger. If a guide tells you which animal to shoot, and you book a hunt for what might be a new world record, and given a size range of what to expect, shouldn't you expect it to be at least in the size range of the advertisement?

Why all the anger at the hunter who didn't get what he paid for? How many people can accurately estimate the size of a live sheep when they don't see them every day?

I don't have anything in the record book, but I like to use it for a base to know what a mature animal is. Scoring high in the book is nice, but that's just a bonus. I want what I take to be a mature, full grown, quality animal, so when I have a guide I want him to be able to tell me how big it is before I shoot it. A good example is that I wanted a 50 inch kudu when I went to Namibia. Is saw dozens of them while I was there, but only shot the one my guide told me was over 50 inches. He was 52 inches. If he had told me to shoot one and it was 48 inches, I would be upset.

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#6166332 - 02/02/16 12:39 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
Sneaky Offline
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
I don't understand any of it. The people talking down to the hunter. The hunt for a specific size of animal. Guides guaranteeing world records. Facebook's existance.

There's probably a shred of sense in it, somewhere, but I don't see it.
_________________________

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#6166366 - 02/02/16 12:59 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
dkershen Online   content


Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 15138
Loc: Denton/Argyle
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
There is a thread going on at FB about a guy who booked a hunt for a black hawaiian based on it's size. The ad said it would be 38 to 41 inches. Then he was later told that if he took it with a pistol, it would be the new world record. From what I can understand, the outfitter doing the booking wasn't the guide. The guide told the hunter to shoot the one on the right, it was the biggest one. On the ground, it turned out to be 34.5 inches. Nothing close to what he had been sold. The outfitter is going to make it right and has offered a full refund. I applaud the outfitter for doing this since I feel this is the right thing to do.

What bothers me, and why I bring this up is all the comments from others who are attacking the hunter for pulling the trigger. If a guide tells you which animal to shoot, and you book a hunt for what might be a new world record, and given a size range of what to expect, shouldn't you expect it to be at least in the size range of the advertisement?

Why all the anger at the hunter who didn't get what he paid for? How many people can accurately estimate the size of a live sheep when they don't see them every day?

I don't have anything in the record book, but I like to use it for a base to know what a mature animal is. Scoring high in the book is nice, but that's just a bonus. I want what I take to be a mature, full grown, quality animal, so when I have a guide I want him to be able to tell me how big it is before I shoot it. A good example is that I wanted a 50 inch kudu when I went to Namibia. Is saw dozens of them while I was there, but only shot the one my guide told me was over 50 inches. He was 52 inches. If he had told me to shoot one and it was 48 inches, I would be upset.



Judging horn size on the hoof is a tough job, and outfitters that sell hunts based on inches of horn better be good at it. The ram outfitter that missed by 4 inches did the exact right thing.

BTW.. I had the exact same goal on my Kudu hunt a few years back, with that exact same result. Nice to find another member of the 50 club up I find that PH's in Africa are dang good at judging animals on the hoof. If we required guides in the US to undergo the same level of training and apprenticeship they do, hunting in the US would be much the better for it.
_________________________

To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.
www.NewHopeEquine.com

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#6166484 - 02/02/16 02:27 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6450
Loc: Lubbock, TX
I wouldn't talk down to the hunter and I applaud the outfitter for making it right. However, it's always a good idea to do your homework and have at least some idea of the animal you're hunting. What if you and the guide and separated by 10-15' and he tells you to shoot, but in the brush it turns out you're looking at different animals and you're about to shoot the wrong one?
_________________________

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#6166693 - 02/02/16 05:21 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
don k Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 9263
Loc: Bandera, Tx
What I have done on Ibex that I have told a certain size is if there is a discussion as to if it is really what i said they were. Let us say I said the horns were 30 inches. If the horns were over 30 you owe me $100 per inch. If they are less than 30" I owe you $100 per inch. I have never had to pay. I tried face book for a while. What I have seen it is not all it is cracked up to be. That is why I quit it.
_________________________
http://www.ibexgoats.com/home.html

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#6167610 - 02/03/16 09:30 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: Sneaky]
TxAg Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 3247
Loc: Live in Katy, Hunt in Llano Co...
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
I don't understand any of it. The people talking down to the hunter. The hunt for a specific size of animal. Guides guaranteeing world records. Facebook's existance.

There's probably a shred of sense in it, somewhere, but I don't see it.


clap
_________________________
http://www.weaverbilt.com/
Custom Feeders and Fiberglass Blinds

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#6167717 - 02/03/16 10:26 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: TxAg]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23579
Loc: Wise County Texas
Originally Posted By: TxAg
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
I don't understand any of it. The people talking down to the hunter. The hunt for a specific size of animal. Guides guaranteeing world records. Facebook's existance.

There's probably a shred of sense in it, somewhere, but I don't see it.


clap


Above our "pay grade" I guess Sneaky grin
_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


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#6167788 - 02/03/16 10:51 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
Sneaky Offline
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
I reckon so.
_________________________

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#6167799 - 02/03/16 11:00 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: dkershen]
SniperRAB Online   content
GRAMPS!!!

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 21043
Loc: Nurturing Biosphere Mothership
Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
There is a thread going on at FB about a guy who booked a hunt for a black hawaiian based on it's size. The ad said it would be 38 to 41 inches. Then he was later told that if he took it with a pistol, it would be the new world record. From what I can understand, the outfitter doing the booking wasn't the guide. The guide told the hunter to shoot the one on the right, it was the biggest one. On the ground, it turned out to be 34.5 inches. Nothing close to what he had been sold. The outfitter is going to make it right and has offered a full refund. I applaud the outfitter for doing this since I feel this is the right thing to do.

What bothers me, and why I bring this up is all the comments from others who are attacking the hunter for pulling the trigger. If a guide tells you which animal to shoot, and you book a hunt for what might be a new world record, and given a size range of what to expect, shouldn't you expect it to be at least in the size range of the advertisement?

Why all the anger at the hunter who didn't get what he paid for? How many people can accurately estimate the size of a live sheep when they don't see them every day?

I don't have anything in the record book, but I like to use it for a base to know what a mature animal is. Scoring high in the book is nice, but that's just a bonus. I want what I take to be a mature, full grown, quality animal, so when I have a guide I want him to be able to tell me how big it is before I shoot it. A good example is that I wanted a 50 inch kudu when I went to Namibia. Is saw dozens of them while I was there, but only shot the one my guide told me was over 50 inches. He was 52 inches. If he had told me to shoot one and it was 48 inches, I would be upset.



Judging horn size on the hoof is a tough job, and outfitters that sell hunts based on inches of horn better be good at it. The ram outfitter that missed by 4 inches did the exact right thing.

BTW.. I had the exact same goal on my Kudu hunt a few years back, with that exact same result. Nice to find another member of the 50 club up I find that PH's in Africa are dang good at judging animals on the hoof. If we required guides in the US to undergo the same level of training and apprenticeship they do, hunting in the US would be much the better for it.


I need to see this Kudu you speak of up
_________________________

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#6168130 - 02/03/16 02:51 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: SniperRAB]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23579
Loc: Wise County Texas
Originally Posted By: SniperRAB
Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
There is a thread going on at FB about a guy who booked a hunt for a black hawaiian based on it's size. The ad said it would be 38 to 41 inches. Then he was later told that if he took it with a pistol, it would be the new world record. From what I can understand, the outfitter doing the booking wasn't the guide. The guide told the hunter to shoot the one on the right, it was the biggest one. On the ground, it turned out to be 34.5 inches. Nothing close to what he had been sold. The outfitter is going to make it right and has offered a full refund. I applaud the outfitter for doing this since I feel this is the right thing to do.

What bothers me, and why I bring this up is all the comments from others who are attacking the hunter for pulling the trigger. If a guide tells you which animal to shoot, and you book a hunt for what might be a new world record, and given a size range of what to expect, shouldn't you expect it to be at least in the size range of the advertisement?

Why all the anger at the hunter who didn't get what he paid for? How many people can accurately estimate the size of a live sheep when they don't see them every day?

I don't have anything in the record book, but I like to use it for a base to know what a mature animal is. Scoring high in the book is nice, but that's just a bonus. I want what I take to be a mature, full grown, quality animal, so when I have a guide I want him to be able to tell me how big it is before I shoot it. A good example is that I wanted a 50 inch kudu when I went to Namibia. Is saw dozens of them while I was there, but only shot the one my guide told me was over 50 inches. He was 52 inches. If he had told me to shoot one and it was 48 inches, I would be upset.



Judging horn size on the hoof is a tough job, and outfitters that sell hunts based on inches of horn better be good at it. The ram outfitter that missed by 4 inches did the exact right thing.

BTW.. I had the exact same goal on my Kudu hunt a few years back, with that exact same result. Nice to find another member of the 50 club up I find that PH's in Africa are dang good at judging animals on the hoof. If we required guides in the US to undergo the same level of training and apprenticeship they do, hunting in the US would be much the better for it.


I need to see this Kudu you speak of up



He may have got that one after I saw his collection, the man has a crap-load of trophies for sure..Id like to see a photo as well, even though I have not shot an exotic anything.
_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


Top
#6168566 - 02/03/16 06:35 PM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
TxHunter80 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 214
Sounds like the outfitter did the right thing if he was advertising it as a new world record. I expect that the hunter paid a premium to shoot a record ram. The outfitter was way off on size and he is making it right. Good for him.

From your post, it doesn't sound like the hunter did anything wrong. I wouldn't expect a full refund. However, if he paid for the record book, I don't think it is out of line to accept a partial refund or credit. This should really be a story of an outfitter that made a standup call. There aren't many that would offer a full refund.

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#6169055 - 02/04/16 06:34 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19244
Loc: Corsicana
I'm with Sneaky.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6169058 - 02/04/16 06:43 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
8pointdrop Online   sleepy
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 4714
Loc: My favorite place TEXAS
I'm 32 and I've never had Facebook because of reasons like that, too many yahoos and idiots. I don't understand the desire people have to know everything about everybody, kinda weird to me.

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#6169204 - 02/04/16 08:25 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: EddieWalker]
EddieWalker Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tyler, TX
Just to update. The hunt was posted for a low price, but that it had to happen right away. I think it was in the $1,800 range for a 38 to 42 inch ram. Then the hunter posted the text between the outfitter and himself that the ram might be the new world record if taken with a pistol, but he couldn't guarantee the size of the ram for sure. The hunter booked the hunt after hearing that and started practicing with his pistol.

The guide was not the outfitter. No idea what the guide new or didn't know about the size the ram was supposed to be. He got the hunter on two big rams and told him to take the one he felt was the biggest. It was 34.5 inches. When they got back with it to where the outfitter was, he basically blew him off saying thats hunting and that he never guaranteed the size of the ram.

From what I understand, the hunter was not able to get any sort of resolution done through the outfitter, so he posted it on facebook. Pictures of the ram, the deal for the ram and their text messages. This is when the replies started coming in attacking the hunter. Then they turned into an [censored] kissing to the outfitter like I have never seen before.

This entire thread has now been removed, but the [censored] kissers have gone into overdrive expressing their love and devotion to the outfitter. It's become embarrassing to see grown men praise and worship an outfitter that some of them have never even met!!! I don't get it.

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#6169207 - 02/04/16 08:26 AM Re: Trophy Size not what you where sold [Re: SniperRAB]
EddieWalker Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tyler, TX
Originally Posted By: SniperRAB
Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
There is a thread going on at FB about a guy who booked a hunt for a black hawaiian based on it's size. The ad said it would be 38 to 41 inches. Then he was later told that if he took it with a pistol, it would be the new world record. From what I can understand, the outfitter doing the booking wasn't the guide. The guide told the hunter to shoot the one on the right, it was the biggest one. On the ground, it turned out to be 34.5 inches. Nothing close to what he had been sold. The outfitter is going to make it right and has offered a full refund. I applaud the outfitter for doing this since I feel this is the right thing to do.

What bothers me, and why I bring this up is all the comments from others who are attacking the hunter for pulling the trigger. If a guide tells you which animal to shoot, and you book a hunt for what might be a new world record, and given a size range of what to expect, shouldn't you expect it to be at least in the size range of the advertisement?

Why all the anger at the hunter who didn't get what he paid for? How many people can accurately estimate the size of a live sheep when they don't see them every day?

I don't have anything in the record book, but I like to use it for a base to know what a mature animal is. Scoring high in the book is nice, but that's just a bonus. I want what I take to be a mature, full grown, quality animal, so when I have a guide I want him to be able to tell me how big it is before I shoot it. A good example is that I wanted a 50 inch kudu when I went to Namibia. Is saw dozens of them while I was there, but only shot the one my guide told me was over 50 inches. He was 52 inches. If he had told me to shoot one and it was 48 inches, I would be upset.



Judging horn size on the hoof is a tough job, and outfitters that sell hunts based on inches of horn better be good at it. The ram outfitter that missed by 4 inches did the exact right thing.

BTW.. I had the exact same goal on my Kudu hunt a few years back, with that exact same result. Nice to find another member of the 50 club up I find that PH's in Africa are dang good at judging animals on the hoof. If we required guides in the US to undergo the same level of training and apprenticeship they do, hunting in the US would be much the better for it.


I need to see this Kudu you speak of up


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