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Antler question
#6162620
01/31/16 01:11 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
OP
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OP
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Got on a new lease in Brown Co this year. I noticed most bucks have busted antlers by mid December. I know they will break them fighting and rubbing, but is there any mineral or supplement to harden antlers? I fed 16% protein from March on. I've put out minerals before on other leases, but it looks like the deer won't/don't touch it, they type you dig a hole and mix with dirt and water in.
Suggestions or ideas?
Last edited by hoof n wings; 01/31/16 01:49 AM.
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6162645
01/31/16 01:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,637
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I'd try a combo salt/mineral block and make sure your protein is for deer, like AntlerMax or one of the highly rated competitors. Also watch your buck/doe ratio, make sure you don't have too many bucks (likely not a problem but you never know). Other than that I don't know if there's much you can do.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6162654
01/31/16 01:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Fighting and broken antlers were common in a lot areas this year. Bucks were heavier bodied this year due to the great rainfall year also. More body weight meant more leverage on antlers. The mineral package in deer feeds is very important and a great mineral package will drive up the price of protein.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6162721
01/31/16 01:58 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
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I use Hi Pro Feeds 16% Calcium 1.4 - 15% Phosphorus min .60 Magnesium min .35 Potassium min 1.10 Sulfur min .25 Manganese min 65ppm Zinc min 130.ppm Copper 35-50% Vitamin A 5000 tu/lb
As mentioned, this is my first year on the lease. I believe others feed corn/soybean mix
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166627
02/02/16 10:21 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
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I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166639
02/02/16 10:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,532
redchevy
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We still see some breakage, but it seems after feeding protein free choice for the last 8 years we see much less of it. The first couple years we had a few deer that would break every tine off.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166676
02/02/16 11:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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stx, do you have a preferred mineral package for whitetails that you'd be willing to share? We feed Antlermax Textured in troughs and L&E 20% free-choice. About to experiment with DF&G "Double Down". All have what are claimed to be excellent mineral pacs, but I'd be lying if I said I knew what was ideal.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166702
02/02/16 11:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
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Bucks fight. Your problem is one a majority on here wish they had. You probably have more bucks than does that need servicing.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166762
02/03/16 12:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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don k's reply brings up another subject that, to date, I've never seen answered with any certainty.
What is the ideal B:D ratio?
We like 1.5-2 bucks for every doe. Age classes of bucks evenly distributed.
80% of broken tines we see occur in middle-aged bucks.
Number of bucks with broken tines in season is probably ~ 15%.
Found dead. 2%-12% each year.
Last edited by fouzman; 02/03/16 12:23 AM. Reason: Added mortality
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166776
02/03/16 12:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I prefer L/E Feeds 20% pasture feed for their mineral package. No one has one even close to it IMO. I would stick with one feed only to make sure they are getting the correct minerals/protein that they can utilize and get into the bloodstream where the nutrients can be utilized. I prefer a buck to doe ratio that is shaded more towards bucks if you can but as close to 1 to 1 as you can get if not. Broken tines are just part of a tight ratio and a trickle type rut. Then throw in doe fawns getting large enough body wise to come into estrus and you have a recipe for fighting.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6166792
02/03/16 12:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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No wonder they call u Obie Juan... Answered all my questions outright AND between the lines. Many Thanks!
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6167662
02/03/16 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 496
BowMan59
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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L&E is good Antler Max is good any premium feed is good and worth the money if your wanting to raise and harvest bigger antlered deer. However one other ingredient is needed to cut down on the number of broken tines. Rain is the key factor, I saw less, a lot less broken tines this year then I have in the past 4 or 5. I manage a 1200 acre high fenced ranch with a One to One ratio and have fed the same feed since taking over 10 years ago. This is the wettest year we have had in at least 6 years, this not only held true for me but also a buddy that owns and manages a 2200 acre ranch. In our opinion and the proof is in the deer we killed and the sheds we'll find. Rain adds moisture making them less brittle. Just our opinion what do you think stx.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6167700
02/03/16 04:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I was on a ranch in South Texas hunting for a few days over a 2 week period. They had good rainfall this past year and above average rainfall. They had more broken tines this year than in the past 3 yrs according to their biologist/manager. This ranch has a 1 to 1 ratio in Oct and was more like 1 buck to 2 does when I was there. They had been taking off the lower end of the bucks. I saw and took pics of a lot of bucks with broken points to whole sides broken off. I witnessed 2 fights in late Jan. Saw a few does being chased by bucks and saw a lot of doe fawns being chased around. I have seen just as many broken antlers in wet years as I do in dry years. IMO I think the lack of rain(on unfed/no food plot ranches) causes antlers to carry less mass and break easier. On the opposite, I think in wet years you see bucks carry a lot more body weight and that adds leverage in fights. Results in more broken points. I also think they fight a bit more in wet years due to doe fawns getting large enough in body weight so that more of them are coming into estrus. More fighting equals more broken antlers. Here on my little place, I see the same amount of bucks with broken points in dry years as I have in wet years. I feed protein(not every buck eats it yet) year round free choice and have food plots and still see broken points. One place I managed was the same with broken points on bucks. I think that the mineral package in feed is the key to heavier(by weight and circumference) antlers. But in the end when you pit two animals together with only antlers at the contact point, throw in the shear force of their leverage....something is going to give or break if they are fighting long enough. Lot of power behind that leverage if you have ever had the chance to watch to bucks fight. They are not playing with each other, they are trying to over-power or kill their competitor.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6167721
02/03/16 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,862
HuntnFly67
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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I think the biggest (not only) factor in broken antlers are a direct result of how hard they have to fight to get with a doe. Next would be quality of feed/range conditions. We were close to a 2 or 2.5 buck to doe ratio in 14-15 - most of our shooters were broken up by Thanksgiving. This season it was closer to 1 or 1.5 B:D - a lot less breakage and range conditions were the best they've been in 5-10 years. Just my observations and here's my to go along with it.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6167985
02/03/16 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 496
BowMan59
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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Given that me and my buddy both feed year round and both have 1 to 1 ratios I've got to say things must be different in west Texas since we both have less breakage on wet years. It is good to see different opinions and by no means am I saying mine or ours is right, it's just our observations over here in the west.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6168448
02/03/16 11:35 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
OP
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Thanks for the replys. As I said, this is the first year on the lease, so I'm not sure how things were in the past. I plan on doing a food plot with cow peas this year, plus continue protein feeding
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6168465
02/03/16 11:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,886
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,886 |
Broken antlers at the end of a season are a good sign IMO.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6170093
02/05/16 02:19 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
OP
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OP
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I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: Atler question
[Re: hoof n wings]
#6173862
02/08/16 05:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 61
drjoe
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
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Posts: 61 |
I sure like milk calcium added at 40 lbs per ton 17% pellets
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