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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#6162620 - 01/30/16 07:11 PM Antler question
hoof n wings Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 12691
Loc: Arlington/Brownwood
Got on a new lease in Brown Co this year. I noticed most bucks have busted antlers by mid December. I know they will break them fighting and rubbing, but is there any mineral or supplement to harden antlers? I fed 16% protein from March on. I've put out minerals before on other leases, but it looks like the deer won't/don't touch it, they type you dig a hole and mix with dirt and water in.

Suggestions or ideas?


Edited by hoof n wings (01/30/16 07:49 PM)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods.

Originally Posted By: Hancock
I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.

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#6162645 - 01/30/16 07:22 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6498
Loc: Lubbock, TX
I'd try a combo salt/mineral block and make sure your protein is for deer, like AntlerMax or one of the highly rated competitors. Also watch your buck/doe ratio, make sure you don't have too many bucks (likely not a problem but you never know). Other than that I don't know if there's much you can do.
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#6162654 - 01/30/16 07:25 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Fighting and broken antlers were common in a lot areas this year. Bucks were heavier bodied this year due to the great rainfall year also. More body weight meant more leverage on antlers. The mineral package in deer feeds is very important and a great mineral package will drive up the price of protein.
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#6162721 - 01/30/16 07:58 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
hoof n wings Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 12691
Loc: Arlington/Brownwood
I use Hi Pro Feeds 16%
Calcium 1.4 - 15%
Phosphorus min .60
Magnesium min .35
Potassium min 1.10
Sulfur min .25
Manganese min 65ppm
Zinc min 130.ppm
Copper 35-50%
Vitamin A 5000 tu/lb

As mentioned, this is my first year on the lease. I believe others feed corn/soybean mix
_________________________
Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods.

Originally Posted By: Hancock
I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.

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#6166627 - 02/02/16 04:21 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
hoof n wings Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 12691
Loc: Arlington/Brownwood
Any more ideas?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods.

Originally Posted By: Hancock
I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.

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#6166639 - 02/02/16 04:30 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
We still see some breakage, but it seems after feeding protein free choice for the last 8 years we see much less of it. The first couple years we had a few deer that would break every tine off.
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It's hell eatin em live

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#6166676 - 02/02/16 05:04 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1014
Loc: Houston, TX
stx, do you have a preferred mineral package for whitetails that you'd be willing to share? We feed Antlermax Textured in troughs and L&E 20% free-choice. About to experiment with DF&G "Double Down". All have what are claimed to be excellent mineral pacs, but I'd be lying if I said I knew what was ideal.

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#6166702 - 02/02/16 05:26 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
don k Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 9305
Loc: Bandera, Tx
Bucks fight. Your problem is one a majority on here wish they had. You probably have more bucks than does that need servicing.
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http://www.ibexgoats.com/home.html

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#6166762 - 02/02/16 06:13 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1014
Loc: Houston, TX
don k's reply brings up another subject that, to date, I've never seen answered with any certainty.

What is the ideal B:D ratio?

We like 1.5-2 bucks for every doe. Age classes of bucks evenly distributed.

80% of broken tines we see occur in middle-aged bucks.

Number of bucks with broken tines in season is probably ~ 15%.

Found dead. 2%-12% each year.



Edited by fouzman (02/02/16 06:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Added mortality

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#6166776 - 02/02/16 06:20 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I prefer L/E Feeds 20% pasture feed for their mineral package. No one has one even close to it IMO. I would stick with one feed only to make sure they are getting the correct minerals/protein that they can utilize and get into the bloodstream where the nutrients can be utilized.
I prefer a buck to doe ratio that is shaded more towards bucks if you can but as close to 1 to 1 as you can get if not. Broken tines are just part of a tight ratio and a trickle type rut. Then throw in doe fawns getting large enough body wise to come into estrus and you have a recipe for fighting.
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#6166792 - 02/02/16 06:28 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1014
Loc: Houston, TX
No wonder they call u Obie Juan...

Answered all my questions outright AND between the lines.

cheers

Many Thanks!

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#6167662 - 02/03/16 09:59 AM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
BowMan59 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/21/11
Posts: 352
L&E is good Antler Max is good any premium feed is good and worth the money if your wanting to raise and harvest bigger antlered deer. However one other ingredient is needed to cut down on the number of broken tines. Rain is the key factor, I saw less, a lot less broken tines this year then I have in the past 4 or 5. I manage a 1200 acre high fenced ranch with a One to One ratio and have fed the same feed since taking over 10 years ago. This is the wettest year we have had in at least 6 years, this not only held true for me but also a buddy that owns and manages a 2200 acre ranch. In our opinion and the proof is in the deer we killed and the sheds we'll find. Rain adds moisture making them less brittle. Just our opinion what do you think stx.
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I don't always hunt but if I'm not I'm fishing

Lone Star Trophy Ranch Comstock TX.
Where Dreams become Memories!
830-719-2469

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#6167700 - 02/03/16 10:19 AM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I was on a ranch in South Texas hunting for a few days over a 2 week period. They had good rainfall this past year and above average rainfall. They had more broken tines this year than in the past 3 yrs according to their biologist/manager. This ranch has a 1 to 1 ratio in Oct and was more like 1 buck to 2 does when I was there. They had been taking off the lower end of the bucks. I saw and took pics of a lot of bucks with broken points to whole sides broken off. I witnessed 2 fights in late Jan. Saw a few does being chased by bucks and saw a lot of doe fawns being chased around.
I have seen just as many broken antlers in wet years as I do in dry years. IMO I think the lack of rain(on unfed/no food plot ranches) causes antlers to carry less mass and break easier. On the opposite, I think in wet years you see bucks carry a lot more body weight and that adds leverage in fights. Results in more broken points. I also think they fight a bit more in wet years due to doe fawns getting large enough in body weight so that more of them are coming into estrus. More fighting equals more broken antlers. Here on my little place, I see the same amount of bucks with broken points in dry years as I have in wet years. I feed protein(not every buck eats it yet) year round free choice and have food plots and still see broken points. One place I managed was the same with broken points on bucks.
I think that the mineral package in feed is the key to heavier(by weight and circumference) antlers. But in the end when you pit two animals together with only antlers at the contact point, throw in the shear force of their leverage....something is going to give or break if they are fighting long enough. Lot of power behind that leverage if you have ever had the chance to watch to bucks fight. They are not playing with each other, they are trying to over-power or kill their competitor. 2cents
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#6167721 - 02/03/16 10:27 AM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
HuntnFly67 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 4525
I think the biggest (not only) factor in broken antlers are a direct result of how hard they have to fight to get with a doe. Next would be quality of feed/range conditions. We were close to a 2 or 2.5 buck to doe ratio in 14-15 - most of our shooters were broken up by Thanksgiving. This season it was closer to 1 or 1.5 B:D - a lot less breakage and range conditions were the best they've been in 5-10 years. Just my observations and here's my 2cents to go along with it.
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Originally Posted By: Grizz
If you attached NP's head to Scooter's body, would muscle memory cause him to beat himself to death?


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#6167985 - 02/03/16 01:09 PM Re: Atler question [Re: hoof n wings]
BowMan59 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/21/11
Posts: 352
Given that me and my buddy both feed year round and both have 1 to 1 ratios I've got to say things must be different in west Texas since we both have less breakage on wet years. It is good to see different opinions and by no means am I saying mine or ours is right, it's just our observations over here in the west.
_________________________
I don't always hunt but if I'm not I'm fishing

Lone Star Trophy Ranch Comstock TX.
Where Dreams become Memories!
830-719-2469

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