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Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 #6161397 01/29/16 11:17 PM
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Today I hacked off and recrowned my Howa's barrel from 24" to 18".

Here are pics as I reduced the barrel and re-crowned it: - Click image to see it larger.

Hack-sawed 6" off!


Crowned, de-greased, ready for cold blue.


The finished 11 degree target crown.


One reason I shortened the barrel is so that factory loads would work well with this Nikon P-223 4-12x40 scope designed for an 18" AR. Note the elevation turret markings. With the proper load, this can be dialed in to any range accurately. (allegedly)

To do its thing, the scope requires a 55 grain polymer-tipped bullet traveling at a MV of 3240fps.


A few views:






It handles much better now, and is light enough to shoot off-hand. A detachable magazine box conversion, and this gun will be finished.

I'll probably lose interest in it after it's done, and sell it so I can build another. - I'm bad about that.

Weather permitting, I'll take it out tomorrow for accuracy testing and to chronograph the load I am now using.

Last edited by charlesb; 01/29/16 11:22 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161407 01/29/16 11:22 PM
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what tool did you use to crown ?

Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161419 01/29/16 11:36 PM
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I used this tool from Pacific Tool and Guage:

PTG crowning tool, 22lr-6mm

This tool uses a pilot sleeve on the end that protects the bore and aligns the tool as it is turned. The sleeve stays still in the bore, and does not turn, like the sleeve on a chambering reamer. There are several pilot sleeves available for the tool, for different bore sizes.

After putting a patch 2" down the bore to catch any oil or shavings, I drove the crowning tool with an electric drywall screwdriver until the cut reached out to the edge, then cut 1.25" squares of 320, 220, and 400 grit wetordry paper (wet) with a hole punched out in the middle so it would fit on the end of the crowning tool. These polished out the tool marks and prettied it up a bit. Then I used a mill bastard file to knock the sharp edge off of the outside diameter, and a cone-shaped stone used carefully by hand to relieve the edges of the bore. When a Q-Tip inserted in the bore and dragged out showed no trailing fibers, it was smooth enough. After that, it was time to de-grease it and cold-blue.

PTG makes crowning tools in a variety of shapes. I prefer the straight 11 degree crown as it cleans up easily and I superstitiously believe that it provides the best accuracy.

I have another of these tools, for 25, 264, 277, and 284 bore sizes. - You can get the tool in either tool steel, or carbide. They work well, are worth every penny.

Last edited by charlesb; 01/29/16 11:51 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161499 01/30/16 12:53 AM
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Nice job Charles, first dibs's when you get ready to sell!


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161505 01/30/16 12:57 AM
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What in the world are you doing to get such a fine looking cold blue?

Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161540 01/30/16 01:41 AM
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I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind modifying a rifle to meet the 'needs' of a BDC scope. Don't get me wrong, I have a 25-06 at the 'smith' ritght now being cut to 20", but it has nothing to do with with the scope I will use. Doesn't modifying a rifle around a BDC scope limit you to the rounds you use? P_102


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: P_102] #6161548 01/30/16 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: P_102
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind modifying a rifle to meet the 'needs' of a BDC scope.


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161721 01/30/16 03:50 AM
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I wouldn't do it either, but I would say that "because I want to" is a good enough reason. Not everyone thinks like I do, or you do, or JG does, or...

I used to have contact with a guy whose deal was to experiment and find out what it takes to blow different guns up with hot loads. Not something I'd do, but the guy had his reasons. To criticize him for it would be stupid.


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161733 01/30/16 04:01 AM
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Agree RR, his gun and shop. Do what he wants with it.

If nothing else comes of the rifle it will be with the longer barrel.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161827 01/30/16 08:12 AM
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Nikon has a Ballistic App for scopes and ammo of differing makes fir guns that produce different speeds. I have found this pretty accurate, my dad even competed with his last year at JG's match. I think evening the correct data into their system would have been easier than cutting/crowning/blueing a barrel, and still give you the same lack of precision


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161828 01/30/16 08:13 AM
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And don't AR's have a drastically different scope to barrel alignment than a bolt action, which would make the scopes BDC still be off?


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161842 01/30/16 09:56 AM
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Seems reasonable

Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: BigPig] #6161851 01/30/16 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
And don't AR's have a drastically different scope to barrel alignment than a bolt action, which would make the scopes BDC still be off?


No. Sight height will not effect holds beyond 100 yards. It would effect inside 100 trying to hit MOA.


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: Sneaky] #6161856 01/30/16 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
What in the world are you doing to get such a fine looking cold blue?


Well, it's just a small area. Cold blue is usually OK for that.

What I did was to de-grease the area with Berryman's Chem-Tool, then immediately apply a soft cotton cloth soaked with Birchwood-Casey's "Super Blue". I gave it a few moments to act, then cleaned with Chem-Tool again, doing my best to remove the cold blue by rubbing it briskly.

Then I applied the cold blue again, let it sit a few minutes, cleaned with Chem-Tool and this time followed up with 3-in-One oil.

The oil somehow tends to deepen the blue and give it more durability, dunno why but I have seen it happen many times. It works the same way when you are putting on a phosphoric acid finish, it deepens and becomes more durable after being oiled. Some oils are better at this than others, I have developed a preference for 3-in-One oil for cold bluing. For phosphoric acid finishes, dirty used engine oil seems to give the best results.

Normally I use G-96 paste blue, but I decided to give the Birchwood-Casey stuff a try, this time.

Note that it is often said that rubbing with steel-wool is a good idea when using cold blue. This is true - but only if the protective grease on the steel-wool has been removed by either a solvent or a flame. Grease and oil is your enemy when applying cold blue. - Even skin oil! You don't want any kind of oil on there until the job is all done.

Last edited by charlesb; 01/31/16 01:44 AM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: P_102] #6161878 01/30/16 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: P_102
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind modifying a rifle to meet the 'needs' of a BDC scope. Don't get me wrong, I have a 25-06 at the 'smith' right now being cut to 20", but it has nothing to do with with the scope I will use. Doesn't modifying a rifle around a BDC scope limit you to the rounds you use? P_102


Yes, that's the idea. - Or at least part of it.

I could have developed a hand-load to produce the velocity required in the original 24" barrel, but that was not the goal. Instead, I wanted the scope to behave as advertised with commonly available factory ammunition. To get that effect, the barrel needed to be at or near a typical barrel length encountered on AR's, otherwise the velocity with the factory loads would tend to be too high.

Also, you'll notice that the scope is mounted very low, almost touching the barrel. ( I had to grind a flat on the bottom of the front scope-cover so that it would go on.) - This was done to make the rifle easier to use on very close shots, as sometimes occurs when calling a coyote for example.

Another factor that I did not particularly stress in my OP but is still important was the rifle's weight and handling qualities. Everyone who has handled the rifle before and after the barrel reduction has remarked about how much nicer it handles now, even with the Harris bipod attached, which brings it back up to its original weight. The balance point is now just ahead of the floorplate as it should be, instead of being several inches forward of that. - So now, the gun can reasonably be shot off-hand instead of requiring a rest. Again, this can be important when you suddenly find yourself looking at a coyote 25 yards away, and off to the side or even behind you.

So, now the velocity of common factory loads theoretically matches up with the requirements of the P-223 scope, and the rifle is no longer too heavy and ungainly to be effectively used off-hand, in a pinch. It looks kind of funny, but that is often the result when form follows function. I made some effort to make the gun look nice, but job #1 was to have it function as required for its intended purpose. ( Range gun and coyote rifle, useful with factory loads, not absolutely requiring a rest for close-range shots of opportunity, good for several hundred yards if used in conjunction with a range-finder. )

Note that with the scope slammed down low, this is not a gun that is ideal for volume shooting. If you heat the barrel up on this rifle, mirage is going to be an issue. Also, it is not set up for extreme ranges. The barrel twist is one in 12", so it is not going to shoot anything heavier than 55 grains. It will do whatever you want to do though, with a 55 grain or lighter bullet. A scope and rifle comprise a system... I have found that rifles modify easily, but scopes do not.

If you want the scope's BDC feature to work, you'll use a 55 grain load at or near 3240 fps - but this does not prevent you from using lighter bullets or higher velocity if you are ready, willing and able to roll your own bullet drop estimation.

I hope to get out and test-fire it today, and see what the chronograph says about velocity. Weather permitting.

Once the rifle is tested and finished, it will be posted on the "Sales" page at my website and also at Guns International, where I do most of my online sales. The scope and bipod will go with the rifle, it will be offered as an integrated package.

Last edited by charlesb; 01/30/16 02:41 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161929 01/30/16 01:57 PM
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Nice looking rifle. I like the stock. Is that a Boyd's in coyote brown?



Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: scottfromdallas] #6161945 01/30/16 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: scottfromdallas
Nice looking rifle. I like the stock. Is that a Boyd's in coyote brown?


Yes, that is a Boyd's thumb-hole varmint model in "coyote" color.

I was going to get "zombie", which is day-glo green with black, but my partner insisted that I go for something more conservative.

It's like fishing lures that are really designed to catch fishermen... The critters we hunt are color-blind, so it's all "camo" as far as they are concerned. Colors like "zombie" or "applejack" make it a lot less likely that you might mistakenly wind up getting popped by another hunter.

It all looks the same to a coyote or a bobcat, etc.. If the critters had color vision, I'd go for "forest camo" but there's really no point to camo colors unless you do not want to be visible to other hunters.

That's why the girls with hot pink rifles do not scare off all of the game. If we were hunting monkeys or parrots though, well that would be a different story.

I like the "coyote" color a lot, it kind of grows on you and the uninformed are less likely to wig out and give you a hard time about it.


Last edited by charlesb; 01/30/16 02:22 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6161968 01/30/16 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: charlesb
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
What in the world are you doing to get such a fine looking cold blue?


Well, it's just a small area. Cold blue is usually OK for that.

What I did was to de-grease the area with Berryman's Chem-Tool, then immediately apply a soft cotton cloth soaked with Birchwood-Casey's "Super Blue". I gave it a few moments to act, then cleaned with Chem-Tool again, doing my best to remove the cold blue by rubbing it briskly.

Then I applied the cold blue again, let it sit a few minutes, cleaned with Chem-Tool and this time followed up with 3-in-One oil.

The oil somehow tends to deepen the blue and give it more durability, dunno why but I have seen it happen many times. It works the same way when you are putting on a phosphoric acid finish, it deepens and becomes more durable after being oiled. Some oils are better at this than others, I have developed a preference for 3-in-One oil for cold bluing. For phosphorous acid finishes, dirty used engine oil seems to give the best results.

Normally I use G-96 paste blue, but I decided to give the Birchwood-Casey stuff a try, this time.

Note that it is often said that rubbing with steel-wool is a good idea when using cold blue. This is true - but only if the protective grease on the steel-wool has been removed by either a solvent or a flame. Grease and oil is your enemy when applying cold blue. - Even skin oil! You don't want any kind of oil on there until the job is all done.


Thanks. I'll have to remember that.

Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162088 01/30/16 03:57 PM
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I think I understand the motive here and can appreciate the effort. Not something I would do but if I had the time, money and experience to do so it would be fun. Go forth and enjoy!


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162089 01/30/16 03:58 PM
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P.S. I'd still be interested in such a rifle.


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Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162107 01/30/16 04:11 PM
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I don't have an issue with the idea of modifying a gun to meet the requirements of that scope. You could still someday change scope, or decide to change ammo, and you still have a great handling gun to do so with.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162164 01/30/16 05:16 PM
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My son and I took the Howa out to the gun club to try it out today. The neighbor across the street's flags were not moving, so it looked like the wind wasn't up yet.

When we got there, we sat in the van for a minute and watched this guy who was out there shooting his AK at the 100 yard steel gongs. He must have decided that being a little closer would help, as he had walked out twenty-five feet or so in front of the firing line. He was hitting all around the gong. He had it scared but wasn't making any hits.

"Maybe he should aim more carefully." my son remarked.

"Maybe he should get a better gun!" I said, laughing.

My son looked over at me and said, "Don't be a gun-turd!"

Can you imagine that?

The guy ran out of ammo and went back to pack up his stuff, so my son grabbed the Howa and I got a target ready. Walking out to the target butts, the wind came up really strong so I turned back, deciding that the steel targets would have to do, for today. There was no way I was going to even try setting up the chronograph in that wind.

Strangely enough, the rifle still appeared to be sighted in, shooting pretty much where it was pointed.

We fired off twenty rounds at the steel gongs, taking turns shooting five rounds each, as is our habit. I shot at a couple of empty shotgun hulls that somebody had set up at 25 yards. I must have hit right in front of one of them, because it was launched straight up. The other one just disappeared.

The rifle was a lot more fun to shoot with the reduced barrel, so much so that we took off the bipod and shot if off-hand with the last ten rounds in the ammo box. I hit the eight-inch 100 yard gong with all five shots that I had, up on my hind legs which is a good indication as I am not the worlds best off-hand shot by any means. The wind was blowing in from the right, so I aimed at the right-hand edge of the gong like I had been doing earlier, and the wind obligingly pushed the bullets in toward the center for me.

Tomorrow morning we will get out there earlier. There is usually cold, calm air until 9:30 or 10 in the morning. We just got out there too late this morning to do any kind of serious shooting.

Gun-turd... Heh!


Last edited by charlesb; 01/30/16 05:31 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162179 01/30/16 05:34 PM
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Excellent report.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6162638 01/31/16 01:20 AM
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Yeah, I know what they'll be calling me now!
roflmao

I loaded up a new batch of ammo for tomorrow, plus a few of my light target loads that push a 40 grain pill at 1990 fps.

Light target load: 40 grain Nosler varmigeddon HP, 11 grains AA5744, 1990 fps. 636 loads per pound of powder, cases last forever.

Last edited by charlesb; 01/31/16 01:24 AM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Hacked off 6 inches of barrel on my Howa 223 [Re: charlesb] #6163116 01/31/16 03:08 PM
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Interesting.

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