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#6151979 - 01/24/16 12:59 PM Hunt with or without E collar?
epp838 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 210
Loc: DFW, TX
I have a young vizsla, she a little over a year old. She recalls great with or with out the e collar, follows commands etc. never been any issues with obedience. I've been really working on her whoa training and holding steady until shot. Some times she holds great then sometimes she doesn't so I have to use the collar.

My biggest complaint about her is that she stays a little to close when hunting, she normally ranges around 30-50 yards depends on cover. I really would like to she her range around 75-100 yards. Well today after I thought we were done hunting I took her collar off as I was packing up getting ready to leave. I look up and she's on point about 80 yards out and was holding nicely. So I grabbed my gun and went to her and got a single. After that she was working out around 100 yards without her collar, which I think is ideal. FYI when its on I rarely use it and its not gps.

So my question is do you always put a E collar while hunting? Do you think I should try hunting her without to see if her range increases or do you think I should continue to use it until i get her fully trained to hold until shot? It seems like she also runs better and harder without.

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#6152530 - 01/24/16 06:07 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
Fooshman Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 13666
Loc: Black Dog, Texas
I don't always use one.
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#6152548 - 01/24/16 06:15 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
HoldPoint Offline


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 1700
Loc: Plano, TX
Depends on the dog - I have to run my male on one but every dog is different. If you're gonna let her range out in thick cover just run a gps collar if your comfortable with her mannerisms. I run a dual setup bc mine likes to cover ground and is stubborn.

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#6152575 - 01/24/16 06:26 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
scalebuster Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 1898
The gyp I have now runs way close with her collar on. Without it she hunts and runs much better. When reinforcing commands during training I use the collar on her. While hunting I'm old school. Lots of praise when she does well and picking her up by the ears and delivering a beating when she does wrong.

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#6152588 - 01/24/16 06:28 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
Sweese Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 197
Loc: North Texas
Quick question: What does "steady to shot" mean for you? Is it sending the dog once the bird has fallen, or taking off once the shooting starts, whether or not the bird is killed? A "Shot" does not always mean a bird was killed.

"Steady to wing and shot" typically means the dog does not retrieve the bird until sent. With a pointer that is trained to be steady to wing and shot, "whoa" is a standing stay.

In any event, I do not recommend trying to train your dog(with or without an e-collar) while hunting. Because when you are hunting you want to shoot birds. When you are training, you want to train your dog. In a training environment, get your dog to the level you want and then go hunting. Get someone else to shoot whenever you can.

During hunting, the e-collar is optional but sometimes a nice to have for those times when you encounter something hunting that was never done during training. Case in point, this past fall I was hunting pheasants when my retriever flushed 3 wild turkey out of heavy cover. She sat on flush and was steady to wing. When I released her to quarter again, I just applied one simple "nick" to make sure she turned away from the direction they flew and proceeded to work a new area for pheasants.

Relative to range... Most range is inherent in a dog/breed. Over time, in light cover, and without correction for recalling your dog, she will find that max range.
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#6152634 - 01/24/16 06:46 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
epp838 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 210
Loc: DFW, TX
She's steady until shot fired. If bird drops she retrieves, if bird is missed she'll run 10 yards as she watches the bird fly away then get back to searching for birds. I know a lot of guys like to send there dog on command, and I'm trying to work towards that goal but I also like hunting her this season. My goal during the off season is to get her to that point.

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#6152664 - 01/24/16 07:01 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
We trial them in NSTRA without one. On the other hand she will increase her range with age and experience.
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6153191 - 01/25/16 05:56 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
stinkbelly Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 6814
Loc: Parker County, Tx
I always use one. I have seen great dogs turn stupid.

When I tested my dog I had to go without a collar and I had no issues, but I was scared.
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#6153245 - 01/25/16 07:26 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2703
Loc: Houston/Sealy
Maybe am missing something but am not sure why the dog would range further without the shock collar. Are you constantly using it when it's on the dog? Sounds like you are heavy handed with it on and the dogs knows when it's off. It should not matter whether it's on or not as far as range goes. In any event, I would keep the shock collar on always until I was fully confident in the dogs obedience.


Edited by MS1454 (01/25/16 07:30 AM)
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Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#6153311 - 01/25/16 08:04 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2703
Loc: Houston/Sealy
Sounds like your heavy handed with a sensitive dog.
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Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#6153315 - 01/25/16 08:05 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
epp838 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 210
Loc: DFW, TX
Not at all I used it twice yesterday over a 2 hr period, both times was when she chased after a flushed bird.

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#6153540 - 01/25/16 10:03 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 803
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
I always use one and I have dogs broke as hard as you can find one. Like mentioned above, whether I use one or not, all dogs turn stupid for a few minutes every once in a while. The collar is my reinforcement. It doesn't cost me anything to let them wear the collars and it gives me a sense of control in my mind. I have a female setter that is as good a bird finder as I have ever had. At least once a weekend, she has slipped away in her mind to a point where she can start putting birds to flight....rooting them out. I disciplined her pretty hard about it 2 weekends ago. I saw her at about 1/2 mile away from me late Saturday afternoon attempting to do the same. After I popped her a couple of times with the collar, she came back in with her feelings hurt a little, but she went back to hunting with her manners intact again. I could see the effects of the discipline on Sunday morning. She went out on the first round and pointed six coveys of birds to perfection. The collar when used properly is the greatest tool we have as bird hunters. Put it on the dog every time out. You will be sorry if you didn't.


Edited by NorthTXbirdhunter (01/25/16 10:06 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#6153644 - 01/25/16 10:58 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
Sherpa Dog Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 213
Loc: NB, TX
I have 2 V's (male 5yo & female 7yo) with 2 different personalities. One thing that I always have to remind myself is that the most mature they will become is that of a 10yo kid. That in mind all pups will try you at one time or another, & the more they get away with the more bold they will become. When they do not obey your command you just need a tool to backup your command & remind them you're the pack leader. Nowadays I use the tone function more than anything else as a reminder. My female though is a little more strong minded & sometimes needs a touch more than the tone. Regardless I am more relaxed when the collars are on my pups when they're running around in the bush.

As far as your pup running & hunting further with it off this one time, IMHO it seems like an isolated event. Many factors here that could have affected her decision on that hunt.. Where was the wind? How long was she free without the collar? etc. When it comes to the training I try not to limit myself to single events, but rather to look for patterns.

Good luck with your training. It sounds like you already have the making of a good pup that enjoys doing what comes natural for her. Just remember she's still a pup & developing her own style of hunting with experience.
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#6153732 - 01/25/16 11:40 AM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
sallysue Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 2548
Loc: Belton Tx
Yes wouldnt do it without it and my wife put one on me when I go to Cabelas and Bass Pro


Edited by sallysue (01/25/16 11:41 AM)

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#6154155 - 01/25/16 03:25 PM Re: Hunt with or without E collar? [Re: epp838]
mattyg06 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 430
How did you collar condition your dog?

With my dog I had her wearing the e-collar from 7 wks old when we first got her. She only wore the collar when we would take our 'discovery' walks,any of her first bird contacts along with any training and 'fun stuff'. She now gets really excited when she sees any type of e-collar because she knows the fun is about to begin. It sounds like your dog maybe collar wise and may need to spend some time with the collar on but without any type of reinforcement from the collar. Your dog shouldn't know the collar means correction.

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