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#6146023 - 01/20/16 10:11 PM Opininons regarding Force Fetch training
shooterwalter Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 1542
Loc: Poetry, Texas Kaufman County 8...
I am in discussion with a dog trainer regarding force fetch training.

Is it needed? When? Is it hard on dogs? Is it part of the gun dog SOP.
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#6146025 - 01/20/16 10:15 PM Comments regarding force fetch training pros and cons
shooterwalter Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 1542
Loc: Poetry, Texas Kaufman County 8...
Please share thoughts about force fetch training?

Thanking you in advance for sharing.
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QUAIL Dog Training, Live Quail for sale

Guided/Unguided Quail Hunting

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2,500 yd.Live Video Spotting Camera

Pistol Range - 700 Yard Range

CLOSE TO DALLAS

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#6146029 - 01/20/16 10:19 PM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: shooterwalter]
TXPride Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1876
Loc: Lost
Yes, it is part of standard gun dog SOP

Give us a little more info.

It really depends on the owner if it's "needed" our not.

What are your goals for your dog? Are you training the dog yourself? Are you going to run hunt tests? Are you ok with your dog dropping birds/cripples if it gets distracted or excited?

Once I started force fetching my dogs, I realized I'll always do it. There are ways to do it that aren't hard on a dog and use no negative reinforcement, and there are ways that I would consider close to cruel.


Edited by TXPride (01/20/16 10:23 PM)
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#6146089 - 01/21/16 12:44 AM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: shooterwalter]
duckboogieman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 936
The key will be identifying the right person for the job.

Regarding timing. Most will suggest at or around 6mo of age, once the pup has lost his baby teeth so that there are no issues with the mouth being tender.

IMO it's far more a mental process then it is physical. It's laying the foundation from which everything else will be built upon by establishing the mind set that when I say "inset command" that I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.... And there is a HUGE difference. Clearly establishing this relationship early on will only make life easier for both dog and owner. Luckily these dogs live to please and are desperate to know their place so that they can excel with confidence. It's our job to cleary establish that place and maintain those parameters.

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#6146099 - 01/21/16 01:33 AM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: duckboogieman]
claypool Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 28
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: duckboogieman
The key will be identifying the right person for the job.

Regarding timing. Most will suggest at or around 6mo of age, once the pup has lost his baby teeth so that there are no issues with the mouth being tender.

IMO it's far more a mental process then it is physical. It's laying the foundation from which everything else will be built upon by establishing the mind set that when I say "inset command" that I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.... And there is a HUGE difference. Clearly establishing this relationship early on will only make life easier for both dog and owner. Luckily these dogs live to please and are desperate to know their place so that they can excel with confidence. It's our job to cleary establish that place and maintain those parameters.

this, this,this
THIS

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#6146137 - 01/21/16 06:07 AM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: shooterwalter]
wal1809 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 10836
Loc: Texas
I wish we could rename the proceedure and call it force foundation. I think It is wrong to declare a dogs needs this or doesn't need it. All dogs need a foundation do build on. Force fetch is not just making the dog hold a bird and deliver a bird to hand. Let's call that 10 % of what FF does for a dog. The new way for trainers now is deciding if the dog needs it or not. I am not a fan at all about skipping this proceedure. It allows the trainer to teach the dog they will follow commands or a correction will be swift. It also teaches them how to work through a correction without having a meltdown. There are far better trainers out there than Me that have decided to evaluate the dog through FF. IMHO you're cheating yourself and the dog by skipping this very, extremely valuable training method.

Now with that being said. Save your money and take your dog to the best trainer you can afford. If he\she does not come highly recomended, DONT USE THEM. If they don't have a proven record don't use them. If strangers to you don't know them, you got it, don't use them. This is not at all a time to save money. Dump what you got into the base training and you will be a LOT better off in the end. So post them name of who you want to use and listen to people that have used them. There are some shady characters out there that hung up a sign because there dog hit a seasoned UKC title. That doesn't make them a trainer. Did I mention find a reputable trainer?

Duckboogieman gets it. The Force fetch sucks. I want to change the industry name of Force Fetch to Force Foundation!!


Edited by wal1809 (01/21/16 06:09 AM)
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#6146217 - 01/21/16 07:39 AM Re: Comments regarding force fetch training pros and cons [Re: shooterwalter]
bill oxner Online   content
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Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32552
Loc: Richmond
I don't like to do it. It's a last resort for me.
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#6146412 - 01/21/16 09:37 AM Re: Comments regarding force fetch training pros and cons [Re: shooterwalter]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 802
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
In my opinion, there is a gray area between force fetching and a dog that you can call in and hunt downed or dead birds in the field while hunting. I would rather have the dead bird finder especially with the cover we all have this year. Force fetching has its' place in field trials and competitions, but I have only seen a very few times that it would apply 100% in the field. Training a dog to come in and hunt dead birds and stay there until it is found or you call them off is its' own art form and one that would be my preference.

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#6146422 - 01/21/16 09:42 AM Re: Comments regarding force fetch training pros and cons [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32552
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
In my opinion, there is a gray area between force fetching and a dog that you can call in and hunt downed or dead birds in the field while hunting. I would rather have the dead bird finder especially with the cover we all have this year. Force fetching has its' place in field trials and competitions, but I have only seen a very few times that it would apply 100% in the field. Training a dog to come in and hunt dead birds and stay there until it is found or you call them off is its' own art form and one that would be my preference.


Bingo.

Muffin was the easiest one I've ever done.



She's a little reluctant on the release.

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#6146462 - 01/21/16 09:59 AM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: duckboogieman]
Esh and Hattie Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/05/14
Posts: 310
Loc: N Texas
Originally Posted By: duckboogieman
The key will be identifying the right person for the job.

Regarding timing. Most will suggest at or around 6mo of age, once the pup has lost his baby teeth so that there are no issues with the mouth being tender.

IMO it's far more a mental process then it is physical. It's laying the foundation from which everything else will be built upon by establishing the mind set that when I say "inset command" that I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.... And there is a HUGE difference. Clearly establishing this relationship early on will only make life easier for both dog and owner. Luckily these dogs live to please and are desperate to know their place so that they can excel with confidence. It's our job to cleary establish that place and maintain those parameters.


I think I'm going to save this so I can copy and paste it as a form answer

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#6146592 - 01/21/16 11:12 AM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: Esh and Hattie]
wal1809 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 10836
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Esh and Hattie
Originally Posted By: duckboogieman
The key will be identifying the right person for the job.

Regarding timing. Most will suggest at or around 6mo of age, once the pup has lost his baby teeth so that there are no issues with the mouth being tender.

IMO it's far more a mental process then it is physical. It's laying the foundation from which everything else will be built upon by establishing the mind set that when I say "inset command" that I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.... And there is a HUGE difference. Clearly establishing this relationship early on will only make life easier for both dog and owner. Luckily these dogs live to please and are desperate to know their place so that they can excel with confidence. It's our job to cleary establish that place and maintain those parameters.


I think I'm going to save this so I can copy and paste it as a form answer


+1 on that opinion!
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www.wanoscustomcalls.com

Ruffling Feathers Guide Service

UTHFDHGTG Port O'Conner, Texas Dec. 9 Hunt 10,11
lodging 361 983 4371




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#6146847 - 01/21/16 01:02 PM Re: Comments regarding force fetch training pros and cons [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
colt45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5379
Loc: bastrop county
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
In my opinion, there is a gray area between force fetching and a dog that you can call in and hunt downed or dead birds in the field while hunting. I would rather have the dead bird finder especially with the cover we all have this year. Force fetching has its' place in field trials and competitions, but I have only seen a very few times that it would apply 100% in the field. Training a dog to come in and hunt dead birds and stay there until it is found or you call them off is its' own art form and one that would be my preference.
this, never liked force
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#6146908 - 01/21/16 01:35 PM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: shooterwalter]
Judd Online   content


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10742
Loc: Sachse, TX
In my opinion it is hard on the dog and even harder on the person doing it (if they aren't a full time trainer used to doing it all the time). It is teaching the dog how to deal with pressure and if you aren't applying pressure then you aren't "force foundationing" (see WAL it just doesn't sound as good as fetching as a verb grin ).

It depends on your wants/needs for your dog. I did mine, I don't know that I would do another one but I can tell you I wouldn't consider owning a retreiver that was not force foundationed (see it doesn't work as well here either wink ).

The foundation does make more sense because it is the foundation for all training past that stage...you do foundation to pile which in turn ends up being your casting training.

Conclusion in this post - I just don't like the word foundation over fetch.
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#6147517 - 01/21/16 06:22 PM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: shooterwalter]
Teamjefe Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 239
Not to hijack this thread but I have a pup that is going through force fetch right now at Best Retrievers. The trainer said that he is a tough dog so its taken a little longer to force fetch but that he is almost through. I really didn't understand force fetch till recently.

Any review on Best Retrievers?

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#6147669 - 01/21/16 07:30 PM Re: Opininons regarding Force Fetch training [Re: Teamjefe]
duckboogieman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 936
Originally Posted By: Teamjefe
Any review on Best Retrievers?


Rody has built one of the most successful kennels in the state. It didn't happen by accident. Your pup is in exceptionally qualified hands.

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