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Deer Sausage "Cure" #6132270 01/12/16 06:16 PM
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New to processing deer sausage and I need some clarification on the "cure" that goes into the sausage for smoking and dried sausage. From what I can gather, I need to use prague powder #1 for the regular smoked sausage but if I want to make dried sausage I need to use prague powder #2....is that correct?

Also, if I smoke jerky in the smokehouse...do I need to use prague powder? If so, which? #1 or $2?

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6132320 01/12/16 06:51 PM
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Yes, cure #2 is what you want for dried sausage and jerky. A meat using cure #1 will still need refrigeration while meats using cure #2 can be stored without refrigeration.

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6138881 01/16/16 10:52 PM
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So when I'm using curing salt....does this replace the salt that was called for in the original recipe? Meaning, let's say the recipe I find online (raw sausage) calls for 2 tablespoons of salt....and if I smoke it I figure I have to add 1 tablespoon of curing salt #1.....does this mean I should add only 1 tablespoon of regular salt and 1 tablespoon of curing salt? or is the curing salt in addition of the regular salt?

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6139687 01/17/16 02:43 PM
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Be really careful for the amounts on the Prague powders. One tablespoon is about the amount to use for 15 pounds of meat. Follow the instructions on the package of cure for the amounts, not somebody's internet recipe. Too much nitrate or nitrite can be toxic!

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6139739 01/17/16 03:24 PM
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gasman777, the short answer is NO! Cure does not replace the salt in the recipe, it is always in addition to the recipe if you intend to cure the product outside of the safe temperature zone of meat (40-140F for 4 hours). I see you are using cure (instacure, pink salt, etc) number 1 which is a mixture of sodium nitrite and salt, with a pink dye to make sure you do NOT mistake cure for table salt.

Instacure No.1 maximum recommended by the FDA is 4 ounces per 100 pounds of meat. You must scale that down to your application. Here is a great site that has a calculator for cure.

If you see a recipe that calls for a teaspoon of cure, keep in mind that it aint a heapin teaspoon here and a heapin teaspoon there, it is a carefully leveled off teaspoon, half-teaspoon, etc. per measure of product. This stuff is toxic to people, enough to do 100 pounds of meat can have you pushing daisies.

Two things I recommend:

1. Do your internet homework but when you take something for the gospel, be sure it has credibility (such as the USFDA web site for example).

2. Put your recipe here before you make it. There are experienced sausage-makers on this site that can review it to make sure everything is safe. I consider them credible.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6139745 01/17/16 03:31 PM
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gasman777, one more thing I want to add but I wanted it outside of the reply i just made. If you bought a product from Morton Salt called Morton Tender Quick, then the answer is YES. But, you have to follow the directions on the box no matter what the recipe says.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6139788 01/17/16 04:08 PM
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We use what is called Modern Cure for both fresh and dried sausage, it is the same thing as the #1 cure. This might be wrong way to do it, but we have not had any issues yet (15 years now), and we do about 1200-1500 pounds a year. (Yes, we have all day sausage making parties).
Our fresh sausage (or smoked sausage that we grill), after it is smoked, gets vacuum packed and frozen the next morning. But we put the sausage to be dried in a refrigerated walk-in cooler (with a dehydrator) for a few weeks and then vacuum pack and freeze it.
We only take out dried sausage as we want some throughout the year. I think using this method instead of hanging it for months, we are okay. I am going to do some googling on the idea, and watch for replies here.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: decook] #6144959 01/20/16 05:50 PM
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So it sounds like you're saying I really don't need the cure #1 if I'm smoking the sausage? I plan on smoking the sausage for 3-5 hours at 125-150 until the internal temp is 150-155ish. No need for cure #1 with this? I figured I needed it because that's what the recipe called for online.

As for my recipe, here is what I found online and what I plan on adhering to (making 100# of smoked sausage):

half pork, half venison, 13 oz of garlic, 8 oz of black pepper, 29 oz of salt, 1 oz of paprika, 2 oz of cayenne pepper, 8 oz of sugar, 40 oz of water, and 2.4 oz cure #1 (unless you tell me it's not needed).

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6145132 01/20/16 07:37 PM
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If your smoking it to 150-155 internal temp you are cooking it and you don't need to use curing salt, just eat/refrigerate/or freeze after smoking(read cooking) it.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6145157 01/20/16 07:54 PM
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as long as you can get the internal temp up to 140 within 4 hrs your fine. I don't see a reason not to go ahead and use cure to be on the safe side but just make sure to use the correct amount and get it mixed in very well. Its very cheap insurance. Botulism isn't fun for you or the toilet.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6145400 01/20/16 10:34 PM
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If you hot smoke the sausage and keep it refrigerated you do not need to add cure. Hot smoking is normally done at 200-250 for 1-2 hrs or until the internal temp reaches 165+. Hot smoked sausage is "cooked" sausage, the fat has been rendered. We add cure to allow us to cold smoke (low temperature cook) the sausage slowly and at lower temperatures giving us more smoke flavor and rendering very little fat (like store bought smoked sausage but way better, it's safe to eat but you still COOK it when you get home to render the fat). It takes my sausage 6-9 hrs to get to the "safe to eat" temperature of 150-152. I go longer than the 4 hr "safe zone" so I use a cure. I HATE food poisoning, so I don't chance it though there are people that do. Mine have gone as long as 10-12 hrs in the smoke house before hitting an internal temp of 150, (depends on weather and load). You can cold smoke at various temperatures depending on what you're doing, (cheese, fish, sausages, bacon etc). The general understanding among most sausage makers out there (and your deer processors that make smoked sausage), is that you are cold smoking until you start rendering fat. Once you start rendering fat you are now hot smoking AKA "cooking". There are a few folks that call cold smoking cooking, call it whatever makes you happy I guess. cheers There are some that call smoked sausage fresh sausage too, as most understand fresh sausage as sausage that is ground, stuffed, and frozen - no smoke/cure any of that. Anyway, since I cold smoke my smoked sausages at lower temps for longer periods of time I use a Sodium Nitrite cure. There is some good material to read out there if you're just getting started. People do things differently and for different reasons, it's all good as long as nobody starts to vomit. grin

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6145525 01/20/16 11:53 PM
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Please read, and then re-read skinnerback, BuckRage, and redchevy's posts. Then go here and read the FDA's information on food borne illnesses.

Making sausage can get you very sick. What you need to understand is that it is preventable. It isn't magic or fuzzy art - preventing is predictable science. But you have the responsibility to educate yourself before you put yourself or someone else at risk.

Asking questions here is one way, but back it up with your own homework also. Following directions is easy, but knowing what you are doing makes the difference when you come up on something unexpected.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6145847 01/21/16 02:21 AM
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Here is one of the links that I used to reference, has some good information in it. CLICK ME When I first starting making my own smoked sausages I did a TON of research before hand. Talked to lots of old timers, read books, read a lot of stuff on the web, and watched a crap load of Youtube videos. I took all of that knowledge, and put it together with kinda how I wanted to do things to find for myself what worked and what didn't for my set-up. It ain't rocket science so don't need to overthink it, just play it safe IMO. Keep all of your equipment clean and sanitized, (soapy bleach water is your friend) and if you are going to smoke your sausage from 40-140 degrees for more than 4 hrs (that's the temps where bacteria can grow/danger zone), use a cure. That's me, some choose not to. Their choice. up Lots of different recipes out there and the more you make the better you'll get at it.

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: skinnerback] #6145930 01/21/16 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
If you hot smoke the sausage and keep it refrigerated you do not need to add cure. Hot smoking is normally done at 200-250 for 1-2 hrs or until the internal temp reaches 165+. Hot smoked sausage is "cooked" sausage, the fat has been rendered. We add cure to allow us to cold smoke (low temperature cook) the sausage slowly and at lower temperatures giving us more smoke flavor and rendering very little fat (like store bought smoked sausage but way better, it's safe to eat but you still COOK it when you get home to render the fat). It takes my sausage 6-9 hrs to get to the "safe to eat" temperature of 150-152. I go longer than the 4 hr "safe zone" so I use a cure. I HATE food poisoning, so I don't chance it though there are people that do. Mine have gone as long as 10-12 hrs in the smoke house before hitting an internal temp of 150, (depends on weather and load). You can cold smoke at various temperatures depending on what you're doing, (cheese, fish, sausages, bacon etc). The general understanding among most sausage makers out there (and your deer processors that make smoked sausage), is that you are cold smoking until you start rendering fat. Once you start rendering fat you are now hot smoking AKA "cooking". There are a few folks that call cold smoking cooking, call it whatever makes you happy I guess. cheers There are some that call smoked sausage fresh sausage too, as most understand fresh sausage as sausage that is ground, stuffed, and frozen - no smoke/cure any of that. Anyway, since I cold smoke my smoked sausages at lower temps for longer periods of time I use a Sodium Nitrite cure. There is some good material to read out there if you're just getting started. People do things differently and for different reasons, it's all good as long as nobody starts to vomit. grin


This is good stuff.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6146152 01/21/16 12:25 PM
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gasman777 I didn't look at your recipe until just now. Sorry I was in a hurry last night and didn't get to that. Your recipe looks to be a bit short of cure if you are making 100 pounds. You should bump that up to 4 ounces if you intend to cure the sausage as well as cook it.

Something else too. You should make a 2 to 5 pound batch before diving in at a full 100 lbs. Nothing worse then fining out you hate it and still have 99 pounds to go.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: decook] #6146469 01/21/16 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: decook
gasman777 I didn't look at your recipe until just now. Sorry I was in a hurry last night and didn't get to that. Your recipe looks to be a bit short of cure if you are making 100 pounds. You should bump that up to 4 ounces if you intend to cure the sausage as well as cook it.

Something else too. You should make a 2 to 5 pound batch before diving in at a full 100 lbs. Nothing worse then fining out you hate it and still have 99 pounds to go.

another excellent point!!! We would make up about 1 lb first, and try it, tweak recipe (usually more red pepper and/or garlic), make another 1 lb, test, repeat until we got it where we wanted it (usually within the first 2-3 tries due to differences and potency of spices), then make the big run adjusted.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6147534 01/22/16 12:31 AM
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gasman777, I ran your recipe through my sausage recipe spreasdsheet and "reverse engineered" it so it would scale down to a small amount. I chose 2 pounds.

This recipe is pretty garlicky (8 times the typical amount per pound) and slightly spicy (2 times the typical amount of Cayenne pepper per pound). Doesn't mean it's wrong, it might be great. It's also 3 times the typical amount of sugar, and if you are going to cure it, I recommend you leave it out completely to avoid fermentation.

The cure is in GRAINS, not grams. I reload, and my trusty RCBS 505 scale works great with T
This is now your recipe, not the one from the internet. That means you have to give it a name. Here's my suggestion, but it's really up to you.



Last edited by decook; 01/22/16 12:38 AM. Reason: typo

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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6148916 01/22/16 05:49 PM
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that's pretty slick!


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6161671 01/30/16 03:08 AM
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gasman777, did you make the recipe? If so, how did it turn out?


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: decook] #6164243 02/01/16 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: decook
gasman777, did you make the recipe? If so, how did it turn out?


I've been meaning to update but it's been hectic. In short, some went very well and some not so much. Overall I learned a lot of what to do and what not to do.....so from that perspective, complete success. The whole family completely enjoyed it and we're very anxious to do it again next year. I'll break down the good and bad below but keep in mind, we made a lot of different recipes so we can figure out what we like and don't like....thinking next year we can focus our efforts on a couple recipes and that's it.

Jerky: disappointed, the recipe I found online wasn't very good for our taste. It had too much soy sauce, it's edible and we only made a couple of pounds so I'll be searching for another one next year.

Hamburger/Venison: very happy with this, luckily we made a lot of it. We've made burgers with it and some chilli and they have tasted great.

Pan Sausage: made 2 recipes. Both came out good, we'll keep both recipes as one is more of a hot and the other one mild.

Raw Deer Sausage: made 4 recipes here and applied zero smoke. 2 came out good, the other 2 were just ok. We will probably pick a fav out of the 2 we liked and focus on that next year.

Smoked Deer Sausage: made the same 4 recipes as above but applied the cure and smoke. Overall we're disappointed with all the smoked sausage and it's my fault...not the recipes. Unfortunately we made a lot of it which sucks....looking back, I should have varied my levels of smoke so we could see what we like...but honestly this was the part I was least worried about (and boy was I wrong). Good news I've learned, bad news is I've got a lot of sausage to eat that isn't exactly the most pleasant. What went wrong is they all taste way too smoky for our taste. Everything went as planned, I smoked it for just under 4 hours keeping the heat at about 125-150 and pulled the sausage when internal temp was around 150 ish. I wasn't all that concerned about this because I had read a lot about how some people smoke for a few hours and others cold smoke for much longer than that. Either way our batch came out way too smoky for our taste. I'm still stumped on how this happened but I can tell you next year I will probably only smoke it for an hour or less...Granted I know it's different meat but I've smoked brisket, pork, etc. on the pit countless times for a much longer period and never had the problem of being sensitive to the smoke flavor...but this sausage is completely different. I've never bitten a burnt piece of charcoal but I have a pretty good idea of what that might taste like now....Oh well, live and learn.

Dried Sausage: haven't tried it, but considering we smoked it for much much longer I'm worried it won't be good.

Overall, I'd call it success. Good learning experience and everyone enjoyed the heck out of it.

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6164717 02/01/16 07:01 PM
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Sounds good glad yal had fun with it.

On the smokes sausage, are yal eating the casing? It may help some of the smoke flavor go away to eat it without the casing.


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6165092 02/01/16 11:20 PM
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HA HA, you're hooked. You're first go at it went far better than mine. I made what I would describe as 10 lbs of "semi-dry tube liver". barf

It was gawd awful and almost bad enough that the dog wouldn't eat it. Now, what's this about next year? Oh NOOOOOO - you gotta jump right back in with pork and beef. Refine your technique and be ready for next deer sausage season!!


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Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6165290 02/02/16 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: gasman777
Originally Posted By: decook
gasman777, did you make the recipe? If so, how did it turn out?


I've been meaning to update but it's been hectic. In short, some went very well and some not so much. Overall I learned a lot of what to do and what not to do.....so from that perspective, complete success. The whole family completely enjoyed it and we're very anxious to do it again next year. I'll break down the good and bad below but keep in mind, we made a lot of different recipes so we can figure out what we like and don't like....thinking next year we can focus our efforts on a couple recipes and that's it.

Jerky: disappointed, the recipe I found online wasn't very good for our taste. It had too much soy sauce, it's edible and we only made a couple of pounds so I'll be searching for another one next year.

Hamburger/Venison: very happy with this, luckily we made a lot of it. We've made burgers with it and some chilli and they have tasted great.

Pan Sausage: made 2 recipes. Both came out good, we'll keep both recipes as one is more of a hot and the other one mild.

Raw Deer Sausage: made 4 recipes here and applied zero smoke. 2 came out good, the other 2 were just ok. We will probably pick a fav out of the 2 we liked and focus on that next year.

Smoked Deer Sausage: made the same 4 recipes as above but applied the cure and smoke. Overall we're disappointed with all the smoked sausage and it's my fault...not the recipes. Unfortunately we made a lot of it which sucks....looking back, I should have varied my levels of smoke so we could see what we like...but honestly this was the part I was least worried about (and boy was I wrong). Good news I've learned, bad news is I've got a lot of sausage to eat that isn't exactly the most pleasant. What went wrong is they all taste way too smoky for our taste. Everything went as planned, I smoked it for just under 4 hours keeping the heat at about 125-150 and pulled the sausage when internal temp was around 150 ish. I wasn't all that concerned about this because I had read a lot about how some people smoke for a few hours and others cold smoke for much longer than that. Either way our batch came out way too smoky for our taste. I'm still stumped on how this happened but I can tell you next year I will probably only smoke it for an hour or less...Granted I know it's different meat but I've smoked brisket, pork, etc. on the pit countless times for a much longer period and never had the problem of being sensitive to the smoke flavor...but this sausage is completely different. I've never bitten a burnt piece of charcoal but I have a pretty good idea of what that might taste like now....Oh well, live and learn.

Dried Sausage: haven't tried it, but considering we smoked it for much much longer I'm worried it won't be good.

Overall, I'd call it success. Good learning experience and everyone enjoyed the heck out of it.


Glad you had a great first go at this overall. Let's talk about your smoker, pics would be great. What kind of wood, ventilation etc etc. Would like to see the set-up. I bet this group can figure out what is going on with the smoked sausage and help you make corrections.

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6165822 02/02/16 01:50 PM
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The logic behind this set up is I wanted to salvage a bbq pit I already have and use and still be able to use it as a bbq pit while also be able to double up as a fire box for the smokehouse. So I modified the pit with those two pipes coming out of the back and going into the smokehouse and simply close those off when I want to use it as a pit. There is enough room to hang two rows of sausage above the pipes so that part worked out well.

After some quick reading last night I think my problem might be two different things. We used Mesquite wood exclusively and everything I read suggests mesquite is a very strong smoke flavor. I'm also thinking we had poor ventilation given the fact we used mesquite. From what I read, with mesquite you should only smoke for an hour or two with poor ventilation (a clogged environment where smoke hangs out in the smoke house). I also ready you can smoke it for much longer than that if you have real good ventilation at the top where really everything is a pass-through type smoke. The current design in the smoke house was set up to have very little ventilation at the top as that's what I was told by a couple people that have done it before. They made it sound like you almost want to trap the smoke in there.....so maybe I can put a couple soffit vents towards the top for next year.....I don't know, just a theory.

Re: Deer Sausage "Cure" [Re: Bobvilla] #6165976 02/02/16 03:31 PM
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I would tend to agree you want to trap as much smoke in the smoke house as possible BUT you also need to let some of it out thru a vent so there is some "flow" passing thru.

My dad used an old metal lined upright refrigerator with a flue pipe plumbed in from the bottom from a half barrel buried as the fire box. He also put a "chimney" in the lower back of the fridge and up the back side to above the top of the fridge so there was a draft effect to pull some smoke out once the chamber was filled. he also put in a 1/4 turn smaller vent towards the top of the back where some could also escape from the top. He used the metal shelves as his racks for hanging sausage or like a grate for jerky, briskets, turkey, chicken, etc.


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