I picked up a pointer from a guy that told me his buddy was to hard on her with an ecollar. She loves birds and holds point very well but if you try and call her in while hunting she cows down and heads for the truck. She is breed really well and came from a field trial guy. Is there any way to get her confidence back or is she ruined

I'm working with a collar burnt and collar sensitive female right now. Lots of "here" or "come" outside of the field, followed by praise or click-and-treat, and then take it to the field. At home and in the field, give lots of praise when she returns/checks in with you without a command to do it.

Run her without the e-collar the rest of the season and in training sessions, providing you can get a reliable recall or she runs well on a check cord, mainly for safety if your grounds are near roadways. Sometimes the difference in demeanor with and without an e-collar is drastic.

Do not pet her if she gives submissive displays upon recall or in general. It can be cute to some who think the dog needs petted, but it is not productive. Encourage her to stand up or even sit tall and be confident. IF she's pointing and holding, sitting is ok at this point. More praise.

Give her lots of bird contact, pen raised or wild, and don't worry about how she handles the game right now, since you are just rebuilding confidence. Worry about that next year.

She is likely to have a lot of flaws and not as well developed as other dogs her age, but she can still be a productive dog for you.

Patience, patience, patience. If you don't have it, move on. It can be frustrating to deal with the doubt and confusion brought on by mishandling in training, physical or electronic.

I'm sure some of the pro trainers on the site will chime in with even better advice. Good luck.

This again....Patience, patience, patience

Go to the field that is loaded with birds and let her point and kill some birds over her....Lots of birds. Be as quite in the field as possible. Do not raise your voice, yell, hack, etc. Easy on the whistle. Let her have fun. I would leave the e-collar on her and use the lowest setting or the tone at first. Then when it is all over, let her ride in the front seat of the truck with you. You and this pup have got to bond as she builds trust and confidence IN YOU. It may take some time, but there is no better solution than birds, birds, and more birds.

BIRDS fix a lot of crap.

Yep.

Keep your mouth shut except for praise, E collar off. And lots of bird contact

Not a good situation and heading to the truck is not acceptable. IMO, more birds will not fix a dog not coming. I will assume she is not gun shy. If gun shy, the obedience tip below is still important but we can talk more about the gun.

One of the many mistakes I see with training is that dogs go in the field without enough obedience and the e-collar is used to shortcut the training. Another mistake with the e-collar is using too much heat so the dog vocalizes. It is possible this dog was exposed to both. I suggest going back to the basics. Let's get the dog coming to you on command.

Since she is finding birds I would step back and just work on obedience for a while, It is ok to leave the e-collar on the dog(but turned off) but move to a very long check cord and a pinch collar. Determine what you are using for a call back "here " or "come" and also get the whistle going. 3 short blasts is common. You may want to switch to an entirely new command, since she was burned with the last one.

Let her range and play, find the end of the cord, call her with "here"(or "come"), toot the whistle(3x) and then reel her in using the check cord. Give lots of praise once she gets to you. Heck, give her a dog treat if you want. You can also do this with some fun retrieves, assuming she likes to retrieve. The goal here is to get that callback working. Repeat over and over again, with more and more time, more and more range, until she is solid. I realize that with with a pointer you may need a 200 foot check cord - so be it. Expect your dog to become less rangy during this - that may not be a bad thing.

When you have this working we can talk about how to properly add the collar back in.

wonder how many dogs have been ruined with e callers?

It's not the collars fault. The inexperienced owner is at fault

Sounds to me like the dog described by the OP isn't ruined just untrained.

Most well bred dogs (not cheap) with desire that have been properly socialized and not taken from the litter too early could not be ruined by pressure if you tried so I guess it depends what your standards and expectations are.

I screwed up yesterday and hit Jack too hard, he came to the Ranger and wouldn't leave. We took him out this morning and he stuck by the Mule for about 2 minutes then lit out. I will never go above 3 again. I do need to work on "here" command with a check cord. Used the tone then the nic, after about 3 time the tone was all I needed. I worked this morning with someone who knew what he was doing. I hope Tigger doesn't read this, he's already a legend in his own mind

I would heed tigger's advise any day. I don't care that he is a Democrat.

You don't hunt quail for 50 years and not learn just a tad.

I would not suggest anything with the collar until I saw her actions. I do know this. You don't get a frightened dog to not be frightened with more obedience training. Take the collar off, and let her learn to trust you. Dogs are not robots. You don't have a dog problem. The dog has a people problem.

I had her retrieving dummy in the yard today. I fired a crimped 22 pistol in my coat pocket and it didnt phase her at all. Did this 4 times. Then i fired it out of my pocket just as she picked up the dummy. She flinched but brought the dummy on back to me. Am i on the right track? What should the progression be from here? How long do i keep up what im doing? What signs am i looking for before shes ready to move on. Not trying to rush things just need to know how to not move to fast. Thanks

I'd put her on birds and forget retrieving.

I put her on birds yesterday. She hunted hard until my hunting partner beeped his dogs collar. She came in and walked behind me for 10 minutes and then went out and hunted again. Another dog found the birds and she was 50 yards in the other direction. We shot a bird and she came in and followed me for awhile and ventured out to hunt again. She isnt really scared of the gun like some dogs i have seen. She just doesnt like it.

Coyotehunter, for what it is worth about 30 years ago I had a bitch that thought her purpose is life was to honor another dog. No confidence in herself. Your dog needs to be hunted by her/himself, and just you, let him find a covey you flush and no shoot a few times and praise dog or say nothing. Then shoot and kill a bird for him or carry a freshly killed bird to throw after the shot and have him find it. You need a lot of patients but the dog is situation shy and needs self confidence which will be gained in a handler, bird, situation repeated numerous times without correction. Your dog is aware of the training tools that result in pain. Beeper or gun fire. He has enough drive to want to hunt but it takes time. He needs quality time with Daddy.

On a sidenote Barney Topwater has a very nice sitter that really needs time on birds. It is a year old and just needs to be a puppy with very little correcting this year. No lack of drive or desire in dog but is not sure what is expected or what he is doing just yet.

And with this and $2.50 you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I have ruined more dogs than most of you will own.