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#6125281 - 01/08/16 08:14 AM why so many young spikes
2good2Btru Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Houston, Tx
This is my first year on my lease and there is a lot of deer. Its roughly about 2200 acres with 11 hunters. But i have noticed that every time i sit at a stand, i see 1 or 2 young spikes. Some will have 5" spikes and the others will range from 2 to 3 inches. I have allowed a lot of 3.5 year deer walk hoping that they will be much better in a year or two. Most of the guys on the lease are retired or about to be retired. I have noticed that they would rather not shoot a doe and take a spike. I really don't agree with that. So far we took about 14 bucks and 7 does on the property. This last weekend i heard about 3 of the guys that shot bucks that they were done for the season. But they did not take a single doe. Could there be too many does and not enough bucks? High number of does being bred late in the season having fawns late. Yearling spikes born late not having the extra month or two to grow into little forks. Now on the ratio, the weekend before thanksgiving was the best weekend for me. On two stands, I saw about 15 bucks and about 25 doe/fawns. 10 of the bucks were shooters but no older than 3.5

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#6125298 - 01/08/16 08:24 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
booger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 2647
Loc: central Texas
make up for them and shoot 4 does then
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#6125307 - 01/08/16 08:28 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Has there been a survey done? Is there a management plan in place? What are the lease rules for number of deer allowed per spot? IMO Spikes are usually an issue on an unmanaged place with to many deer. I have seen ranches that had fawns born in late April or May have spikes as well as ranches that have doe fawns breeding in Jan-Feb raising late born fawns that had spikes to forked antlers their first year. If 100% of your yearling buck crop were spikes I would more concerned than the killing of spikes instead of does. What would be even worse was had they killed a really good up and coming 2 or 3 yr old buck. In the end 21 deer were removed from the property to make room for last years fawn crop. If you still have branched antler yearling bucks then you are ahead of the ball game IMO with the extra mouths removed. A very high % of spikes will never be the kind of deer their branched antler yearling counterparts will be later in life.
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#6125376 - 01/08/16 08:55 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
2good2Btru Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Houston, Tx
No survey has been done. 2 bucks one being a spike or a cull and 2 does. We feed corn all year round. protein is to be fed also but not really sure how strict they are with that. My brother and I will have 4 protein feeder in place by feb. The yearlings that I have seen are 50/50 fork/spike. All 2.5 yr olds are 8 pointers

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#6125422 - 01/08/16 09:11 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
No survey but everyone is allowed 4 deer? How was the 44 deer limit per season decided on? What county? With a possible harvest of a deer for every 50 acres, you must be in a high population area?
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#6125462 - 01/08/16 09:27 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
TxAg Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 3246
Loc: Live in Katy, Hunt in Llano Co...
I believe you answered your own question. You are seeing A LOT of deer each sit.

It sounds like your population numbers are too high, above the carrying capacity of your ranch. Sounds like your buck to doe ratio may be way out of whack as well. Finally, your fellow members habits may be making it hard for bucks to reach maturity. A high % spike fawn crop is often an indicator of a herd that is not getting the nutrition it needs. Your theory about lots of doe fawns being bred and resulting in late fawns is possible too.

Before next season I would do some surveys to get an idea of your actual population. I would also do lots of stand sits to get "incidental observations" and a few camera placements (not at feeders) to get a feel for your actual B:D ratio. You can do all of these yourself at no cost. Then, based on these results, I would set a management plan with your lease members AND land owner. That may mean y'all need to start shooting 4 does and 1 buck per year until you get numbers where they need to be.
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#6125471 - 01/08/16 09:35 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
redchevy Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23344
Loc: Texas
Is it a low fence property?

Sounds like a history of shooting too many bucks not enough does and maybe too many deer. Like others have said its all guessing without putting some effort in on surveys. I bet your leasemates are ecstatic with the status quo and want nothing to do with shooting does and only one buck etc. Good luck, I doubt you will change anything. Aproach with caution if you care to keep the lease.
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#6125507 - 01/08/16 09:56 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: stxranchman]
2good2Btru Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
No survey but everyone is allowed 4 deer? How was the 44 deer limit per season decided on? What county? With a possible harvest of a deer for every 50 acres, you must be in a high population area?


Kimble county. I say no survey but that's my guess. Going to have to ask the lease manager. I didn't do a survey this year myself. Will this following year


Edited by 2good2Btru (01/08/16 10:22 AM)

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#6125686 - 01/08/16 11:58 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6442
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Sounds mainly like overpopulation/carrying capacity issue. I can't stand buck hunters. Bucks die naturally at a higher rate than does-if you aren't at least killing one doe per buck harvested then you aren't doing your part unless you are in an extremely low-populated area.

We're in a high-density area and routinely take about 3 does per buck.
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#6125749 - 01/08/16 12:37 PM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
2good2Btru Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 181
Loc: Houston, Tx
There is definitely a lot of deer in that area and I do feel you should take 1 doe for every buck you take at a minimum. After a survey, might be different. I do know that on the lease there is at least 4 members that have taken a buck or spike or both and will not be taking any does.

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#6126043 - 01/08/16 03:16 PM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11230
Originally Posted By: 2good2Btru
Most of the guys on the lease are retired or about to be retired. I have noticed that they would rather not shoot a doe and take a spike.


At one end of the spectrum you have hunters who want to see a lot of deer on every hunt. These are often the ones who prefer not to shoot a doe. At the opposite end you have the ones that, when they see a buck, it must be a trophy. These are ones who often whack doe as if they represent a plague to big bucks. Like most things in life, there is some value as you move towards each extreme.

I like the "middle ground" approach already suggested. That is, take a doe for every spike, with a focus on older spikes that don't stand equal with forked bucks that appear to be the same age.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6126072 - 01/08/16 03:32 PM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
postoak Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 2528
Loc: The Woodlands, Tx
Interesting Dan, but why not one doe for each buck and only allow the taking of mature bucks? I think most hunters, with a little training can tell if a buck is 4.5 or older.
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#6126688 - 01/09/16 12:42 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: postoak]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11230
Originally Posted By: postoak
Interesting Dan, but why not one doe for each buck and only allow the taking of mature bucks? I think most hunters, with a little training can tell if a buck is 4.5 or older.


I follow those who recognize that since there's no denying the fact that not every young buck has the potential to satisfy goals, it's best to remove them as soon as it becomes apparent they lag their peers. Otherwise, they continue spreading their genes while you wait to see the impact of the mistake you made by not removing them earlier.

To make harvest decisions only later and ignore the evidence when deer lag their peers is acting as if every buck has the chance to be a trophy. And that is sheer fantasy.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6126782 - 01/09/16 07:27 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: 2good2Btru]
postoak Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 2528
Loc: The Woodlands, Tx
True, but every buck does have the chance to become mature. Perhaps we need to start thinking in terms of "mature is a trophy".
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#6126783 - 01/09/16 07:30 AM Re: why so many young spikes [Re: postoak]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Originally Posted By: postoak
True, but every buck does have the chance to become mature. Perhaps we need to start thinking in terms of "mature is a trophy".

Then why not just shoot only the mature does and not any bucks again?
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