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280 or 280AI #6122625 01/06/16 10:55 PM
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Stilhuntin Offline OP
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Happy New Year everyone,
I don't post often, but have lurked around and learned a bunch.
Looking at getting a new rifle and am kicking around one of the above mentioned.
I have a 7mm08, 25.06, 308 and 30.06. I probably don't need another rifle, but have the itch so not adding another doesn't seem to be an option. I don't hand load and will use for deer hunting some bean fields in Carolina.
Any/all comments will be appreciated.
Thanks

Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6122635 01/06/16 10:59 PM
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I really like my 280 AI they are finally offering some factory ammo for it.
I handload and that is why I picked the AI.

Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6122636 01/06/16 10:59 PM
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Well, you've got four rifles that will handle that task well so you definitely don't need a new one, but if you want one, I'd opt for a .270 or the .280 Rem. I like traditional cartridges that have been carried by lots of hunters through the years. The .280 AI may be that way in 50 years but it certainly isn't now.


Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6122653 01/06/16 11:05 PM
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Of those 2 considering what you have now it would be the 280AI. There really is not that much difference between the 7mm08 and 280, the AI would widen the gap a bit more.


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Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6122660 01/06/16 11:08 PM
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Easy 280ai. You can shoot 280 ammo or 280 ai ammo in it with no problems.


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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6122668 01/06/16 11:11 PM
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Why don't you go ahead and step up to the 7mm rem mag? Lots more rifle and ammo options.

Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: ThreePeppers] #6122738 01/06/16 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Easy 280ai. You can shoot 280 ammo or 280 ai ammo in it with no problems.


Agreed.

Originally Posted By: ThreePeppers
Why don't you go ahead and step up to the 7mm rem mag? Lots more rifle and ammo options.


+1


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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123078 01/07/16 02:51 AM
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If you are shooting either one you should handload.

Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123267 01/07/16 04:24 AM
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That's easy if you don't reload I would go 280AI as the 280 Rem is loaded pretty mild due to being chambered in Rem auto loaders. Now if you reload the 280 can leave the 7mm/08 in the dust and the AI version is only slightly better velocity wise. I have just rediscovered the 280 after having one back in the 1980's and it's been surprising me how potent it is with the newer powders available these days. My 23 inch barrel gets 2900+ with 168gr Berger Classic's and I ran the 160gr AB's even faster. Most folks using 7mm Mag's with factory ammo are not getting that kind of performance..... Don't tell them though as they will get all pouty.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: caddokiller] #6123650 01/07/16 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Easy 280ai. You can shoot 280 ammo or 280 ai ammo in it with no problems.


Is that true? U mean like how I ca shoot a 38 special out of a 357?
That's interesting.


I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123675 01/07/16 03:47 PM
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The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) is simply a 280 Rem fired in a 280 AI chamber. This is how you can fire form brass to load 280 AI. Nosler also makes factory 280 AI brass, but it is a little pricey.

The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) uses the parent 280 Rem case, and changes the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, and straightens the case walls some. It gains about 4 grains extra powder for about 75 fps, maybe 100 fps, gain over the 280 Rem.

If you shoot 280 Rem in a 280 AI chamber, the speeds will be reduced some, since there is more room now in the chamber. But it will fire form the brass to load for 280 AI.

I have loaded many bullet options in the 280 AI using Nosler brass. Comparing the cost of fire forming standard 280 cases to just buying Nosler 280 AI brass and loading it, the Nosler 280 AI is a cheaper option. Plus you get good brass to start with.


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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Korean Redneck] #6123677 01/07/16 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Korean Redneck
Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Easy 280ai. You can shoot 280 ammo or 280 ai ammo in it with no problems.


Is that true? U mean like how I ca shoot a 38 special out of a 357?
That's interesting.


Yes. Many, including me sometimes, just fire form their .280 brass. The Ackley brass is fairly easy to find but is not cheap. Accuracy does not suffer if you stay with a similar bullet (at least that is my experience).

Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: caddokiller] #6123681 01/07/16 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Easy 280ai. You can shoot 280 ammo or 280 ai ammo in it with no problems.


Yes this is true... This is actually how you get brass for .280AI, you "fireform" the brass.

I'd take 280AI over 7 Mag personally, but i have access to reloading set up...

280AI is a BAD A round

Last edited by catslayer; 01/07/16 03:52 PM.

Sombody smells like fried borritos...
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: ChadTRG42] #6123687 01/07/16 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) is simply a 280 Rem fired in a 280 AI chamber. This is how you can fire form brass to load 280 AI. Nosler also makes factory 280 AI brass, but it is a little pricey.

The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) uses the parent 280 Rem case, and changes the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, and straightens the case walls some. It gains about 1.5 to 2 grains extra powder for about 75 fps, maybe 100 fps, gain over the 280 Rem.

If you shoot 280 Rem in a 280 AI chamber, the speeds will be reduced some, since there is more room now in the chamber. But it will fire form the brass to load for 280 AI.

I have loaded many bullet options in the 280 AI using Nosler brass. Comparing the cost of fire forming standard 280 cases to just buying Nosler 280 AI brass and loading it, the Nosler 280 AI is a cheaper option. Plus you get good brass to start with.


pretty sure there are some people geting a more than 50-100 fps increase on AI vs standard 280...

I think it was on a different forum... hang on I'll go research it..


Sombody smells like fried borritos...
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123693 01/07/16 03:53 PM
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The Montana in .280 AI is the cat's meow...


You did what?
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Texasteach] #6123702 01/07/16 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texasteach
The Montana in .280 AI is the cat's meow...


No thanks... them and coopers, i don't get the price, i can have as real CUSTOM built for that... I care if a gun SHOOTS not what is on the stamp


Sombody smells like fried borritos...
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123703 01/07/16 03:57 PM
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Dad has a 280 rem I load for and have shot quite a bit and I like it. My 270 sendero will be a 280AI some day in the future.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: catslayer] #6123726 01/07/16 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: catslayer
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) is simply a 280 Rem fired in a 280 AI chamber. This is how you can fire form brass to load 280 AI. Nosler also makes factory 280 AI brass, but it is a little pricey.

The 280 AI (Ackley Improved) uses the parent 280 Rem case, and changes the shoulder angle to 40 degrees, and straightens the case walls some. It gains about 1.5 to 2 grains extra powder for about 75 fps, maybe 100 fps, gain over the 280 Rem.

If you shoot 280 Rem in a 280 AI chamber, the speeds will be reduced some, since there is more room now in the chamber. But it will fire form the brass to load for 280 AI.

I have loaded many bullet options in the 280 AI using Nosler brass. Comparing the cost of fire forming standard 280 cases to just buying Nosler 280 AI brass and loading it, the Nosler 280 AI is a cheaper option. Plus you get good brass to start with.


pretty sure there are some people geting a more than 50-100 fps increase on AI vs standard 280...

I think it was on a different forum... hang on I'll go research it..


If you keep pressures the same for the 2 rounds, you will gain about 75 fps. You MAY get 100 if you are lucky. Now if you hot rod the 280 AI, sure you can get more speed. But not much more. I've debated every AI round out there, and you will yield about 75 fps gain, keeping pressures the same.

Here's some QuickLoad numbers I just ran in a 26" barrel.

280 Rem with 162 A-max- 2953 fps with 57.6 grain of H4831 at 65,110 psi
280 AI with 162 A-max- 3009 fps with 61.6 grains of H4831 at 65,079 psi

That's a 56 fps gain, keeping pressures the same. Now, the normal 280 Rem is rated at a low 58K psi, and the 280 AI is rated to 65K psi. So, shooting factory ammo and comparing the 2, you can gain more going to the AI. But if you hand load and shoot either round to it's full potential in a modern rifle, you will gain about 75 fps on average jumping up to the AI rounds. I have spoken to many shooters who went 280 AI, 260 AI (many of these guys shooting competitions) and 30-06 AI. The small gain you get is not much. Every 260 AI shooter said it was not worth the small gain for the head ache of brass prep. The 280 AI is a great round and does get you some extra fps. But you do not get the HUGE gains in reality if you hand load. IMO, the 280 AI is a hand loaders round.


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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123740 01/07/16 04:15 PM
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More QuickLoad numbers I just ran in a 26" barrel

280 Rem with 162 A-max- 2993 fps with 62 grans of H1000 at 64,560 psi
280 AI with 162 A-max- 3062 fps with 66.5 grains of H1000 at 64,730psi (116% case fill, also!)

That's a 69 fps increase. 4 grains of powder increase for 69 fps gain. Still it's a good increase, but not the large gain lead to believe.



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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123774 01/07/16 04:34 PM
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The four you have now are so close together there's not much room in between. The 30-06 will do almost all of what you could get out of the .280. Why not go over the '06 to one of the .300 mags?


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Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: Stilhuntin] #6123797 01/07/16 04:46 PM
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I am getting 3087fps out of a 26 inch bartlein barrel shooting the 140 accubonds over 63.1 grains of h4831sc and federal 215 primers.


The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.- Thomas jefferson
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: catslayer] #6123807 01/07/16 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: catslayer
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
The Montana in .280 AI is the cat's meow...


No thanks... them and coopers, i don't get the price, i can have as real CUSTOM built for that... I care if a gun SHOOTS not what is on the stamp


If you can build a 5lb 10 oz stainless controlled round feed rifle with a quality fiberglass stock for $900-1000, you must have a heck of a gunsmith smile. I haven't ever seen one that wouldn't shoot if a fellow knew what he was doing...

Course, if one is hunting out of a stand or a blind, then the weight is a non-factor. But trudging up the hills in elevation, light done right is mighty fine.


You did what?
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: ChadTRG42] #6123812 01/07/16 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
More QuickLoad numbers I just ran in a 26" barrel

280 Rem with 162 A-max- 2993 fps with 62 grans of H1000 at 64,560 psi
280 AI with 162 A-max- 3062 fps with 66.5 grains of H1000 at 64,730psi (116% case fill, also!)

That's a 69 fps increase. 4 grains of powder increase for 69 fps gain. Still it's a good increase, but not the large gain lead to believe.



Yeah I can't find RELIABLE numbers that show anything more than what your saying 75 fps average increase... Some CRAZY numbers on what ppl are saying chrono on 7 mag is...

Chad what do your loads "typically" get on a 7mag speed wise???
And have you seen any real barrel life difference in the 2?


Sombody smells like fried borritos...
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: caddokiller] #6123814 01/07/16 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: caddokiller
I am getting 3087fps out of a 26 inch bartlein barrel shooting the 140 accubonds over 63.1 grains of h4831sc and federal 215 primers.


... this is reliable... I've seen his rifle lol.... Word on the street is that thing can shoot the wing of a fly... IN MOTION lol


Sombody smells like fried borritos...
Re: 280 or 280AI [Re: catslayer] #6123825 01/07/16 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: catslayer
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
More QuickLoad numbers I just ran in a 26" barrel

280 Rem with 162 A-max- 2993 fps with 62 grans of H1000 at 64,560 psi
280 AI with 162 A-max- 3062 fps with 66.5 grains of H1000 at 64,730psi (116% case fill, also!)

That's a 69 fps increase. 4 grains of powder increase for 69 fps gain. Still it's a good increase, but not the large gain lead to believe.



Yeah I can't find RELIABLE numbers that show anything more than what your saying 75 fps average increase... Some CRAZY numbers on what ppl are saying chrono on 7 mag is...

Chad what do your loads "typically" get on a 7mag speed wise???
And have you seen any real barrel life difference in the 2?


What bullet on the 7 Mag? The 7 Mag is a difficult one to nail down on speeds. I've seen some crazy fast speeds on some 7 Mags. I know Jason- fireman- is running 3030 fps with a 180 Berger. That's FAST!!! Most of the time you can push a 180 about 2900-2950 fps. I load my custom ammo to the higher nodes up at max pressures. So, whatever is in the "normal" max range is where I load them at. If I am tuning a load to a rifle, I generally get more speed than listed, since I will push it near max, if not a little beyond it.


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