The loop hole is that not everyone goes through the back ground check process, whether at gun shows, face to face, on-line (and yes you can buy a rifle (not a handgun) in Texas on-line without going through an FFL and have it shipped to you directly with no background check or paperwork). If you are an FFL, the paperwork and background check are verified. If you are an individual, or an individual "dealing in firearms" that does not have an FFL, there is no paperwork or background check completed on the buyer. There are many "gun dealers" at gun shows, on-line, and/or are in the business of selling guns that are not FFL.

listen here folks. Just like there is a lot of talk about how the liberals mis-use terminology and call things like the "gun-show loophole" and "assault rifles" and such silly things with directly inflammatory verbage, there is the same stuff we say that causes as much anger and offense to them; us saying we aren't going to take this any longer and refusing to surrender any more of our rights because we are not a p###y whipped part of the country...

Guess what, until you are willing to throw down that first bullet and have the stand off, or march on Washington, all we are doing is the same the libs are doing to us. Inflaming and insulting doesn't do anyone any good. We hear sh#t talked about all day long, but no one has the balls to do anything about it. The repubs lost an election twice and we as a country have to deal with the ramifications of this for at least another year. It sucks, but that's life. No one said it was fair.

Talking in a civilized manner to our friends here on the forum is about all most of us will ever have as far a political clout. Unless someone is willing to organize a resistance to this EO, there is no doubt we will forced to comply with it and we will be forced to give up more of our "freedoms", as innocuous as that may be for some or as invasive as it may be for others (and whether it was lawful or not to do doesn't matter any more, it is done, unless supreme court rules it was over reach, which probably isn't going to happen since they have shown themselves to be puppets of the mob as well)

When the straw breaks, I will be the first to join in, but until then, insulting and inflaming is doing nothing other than riling people up.

Lets keep the conversation here to what the EO is and what it is not and how we go about doing things we all want to do in the best manner possible within the confines of the law.

BTW, this EO doesn't take effect until at least 180 days, so we have some time to digest and figure things out.

Pretty sure the background check doesn't cost an FFL holder anything. But they have to pay every year to keep that FFL so why not charge for your services? Would you work for free? A background check around here is $15 with CHL and $20 without CHL. If you buy the in their store the transfer is free. Its only outside purchases like from online retailers or auction sites they charge a transfer fee on. They're just charging what they think their time is worth to receive the shipped item, call you when it comes in, then run a background check on you and keep the paperwork on file for ATF if they ever need it.

Ok so I'm not going through 9 pages... here is what I gather...

Every gun sale is going to have to have a pass a background check? so basically an ffl transfer on every gun I buy from my uncle or brother in law?

This is unenforceable right now. We don't have all guns registered... there is no way for them to know if a transfer took place in a face to face cash situation...

that being said. That means that the ONLY thing this is a step toward the (at this rate) inevitable required tracking of ALL GUNS... Huh didn't England and Australia do that... and what's the next step????

Yeah we need to figure out how to get UP IN ARMS about this like RIGHT NOW... I think I'll be contacting my congressmen. Something neads to be done about our POTUS's abuse of the power of the executive branch...

Actually they haven't. They have even said they are going to produce guidance to help clarify. As I said earlier you could be considered in the business even with 1-2 private sales

Today the ATF posted this to clarify who did or did not need an FFL.

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

While I don't agree with anything that Obama does by fiat I think everyone needs to read and know that Individuals that sell a gun now and then are not subject to this. Of course as all ATF guidelines these are all subject to different interpretations depending on the ATF agent you are dealing with. Hope if you ever deal with one you get one with common sense.

Here it is again.

The only thing you have came in here and stated over and over is "I am in the gun related industry and I support Obama taking more of the law abiding citizens of the USA 2nd amendment freedoms away from them."

Please if i have overstated it here please someone tell me. I still say NO MORE infringements on my FREEDOMS.

There seems to be a big source of confusion coming out of President Barack Obama's executive actions on guns: Is Obama really closing the infamous "gun show loophole"?

The short version: No.

The long version: For one, the "gun show loophole" is a terrible name. The better way to look at it is a private sales loophole: If someone purchases a gun from a private seller, such as a collector, friend, or family member, no gun background check is required. This is well-known as the "gun show loophole" because these types of private sellers can be found at gun shows. But licensed dealers at gun shows still have to carry out background checks. The actual loophole is that someone can meet with a private seller at a gun show — or, increasingly, over the internet — and buy a firearm from that person without a background check. In other words, the gun show doesn't create a loophole; the private sale does.

Obama's executive actions do not close this loophole. Instead, the president issued a guidance that attempts to narrow the loophole by limiting who can sell guns without a federal license (which requires background checks on sales), and warns gun sellers of the risks if they try to use the private sales loophole to avoid carrying out a background check. White House officials said their primary interest is to go after for-profit dealers who are posing as hobbyists or one-time sellers when they are in fact "engaged in the business" of selling guns.

The idea is, essentially, to make enforcement of existing federal laws stricter so fewer people — whether gun sellers or buyers — take advantage of the loophole. So a better way to look at the move is that it's narrowing, rather than closing, the loophole.

In fact, Obama's executive actions can't completely close this loophole. It's written into law, so it would take congressional action to completely close it. (The White House was clear on this point in a call with reporters, stating multiple times that the executive actions should not let Congress "off the hook" of passing gun control legislation.)

So Obama is taking some steps to narrow the gaps in federal law, and it's certainly the biggest action he's taken yet on guns. But that mostly reflects his inability to do much on guns without Congress, not that these tweaks will add up to enormous changes.

100% incorrect. You are still not hearing me or understanding me. What I have stated is that I am for a more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of firearms between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire a firearm without a background check. Why- because I don't want people who are not supposed to have a firearm have one- i.e.- criminals, mentally unstable, illegal alien, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to own a firearm and purchase it. And you think that's common sense? How the EO is going about it is wrong.

Just read this from an extremely left leaning news outlet, but it actually sums up the new EO/EA pretty well.



So basically his EO/EA was just feel good pandering to his base. He has accomplished nothing and can't accomplish anything without congress.

100% incorrect. You are still not hearing me or understanding me. What I have stated is that I am for a more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of firearms between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire a firearm without a background check. Why- because I don't want people who are not supposed to have a firearm have one- i.e.- criminals, mentally unstable, illegal alien, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to own a firearm and purchase it. And you think that's common sense? How the EO is going about it is wrong.

Just read this from an extremely left leaning news outlet, but it actually sums up the new EO/EA pretty well.



So basically his EO/EA was just feel good pandering to his base. He has accomplished nothing and can't accomplish anything without congress.

more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of ammunition between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire ammunition without a background check. ..........So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to purchase and possess ammunition How the EO is going about it is wrong.

On the trust ruling, you can have criminals/felons (or someone who cannot pass a background check) currently on your trust. You can also have firearms and class 3 weapons (full auto and suppressors) in your trust that these criminals can legally possess (if not a felon) and have access to with the current law. Seriously, put some common sense to this.

Again, he's not taking away your guns! He's closing the gun show loop hole.