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Bending a bolt
#6119186
01/05/16 06:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394
booradley
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I have a CZ 550 American 6.5x55 and it is my favorite rifle. The issue with scopes like Zeiss and Meopta the eyepiece is so big that the bolt hits it, this isn't an issue with Leupolds. But I bought a Meopta specifically for the CZ and the only way I can mount now is by going to high rings. Bought high rings in August but can't bring myself to use them, I don't like the cheek weld and don't want to add material to the comb.
How feasible is bending the bolt and what does it cost?
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119272
01/05/16 01:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,436
TFF Caribou
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Now I've never done it, or looked into it, but wouldn't you then have to modify the stock to accommodate the different shape of the bolt handle?
My vote, which is worth what you paid for it is, use high rings, and buy a stock pack that you can add comb height without modifying anything.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119293
01/05/16 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394
booradley
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My understanding is you don't have to modify the stock. I could be wrong.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119298
01/05/16 01:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,436
TFF Caribou
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That may be true, just a concern I'd have.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119349
01/05/16 01:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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I for one would set the scope with the big eye-piece aside, and buy something better designed for use with your CZ.
When I have done this in the past, I have always wound up being glad that I did.
The scopes with the large eyepieces are, I believe, designed with the high-end European rifles in mind. These tend to have multiple locking lugs and reduced bolt lift.
For a CZ you will be much better off with a quality scope that is designed for use with a dual lug action. They are easy to spot - because the eyepiece won't be too large in diameter to allow mounting the scope at a useful height with your gun.
Last edited by charlesb; 01/05/16 01:57 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119369
01/05/16 01:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Deerhunter61
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Ive got the same rifle. I use the scope mounts that came with the rifle and although the bolt comes close to the scope it does prevent it from opening and closing. I had a Zeiss on it and now have a Swaro.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6119573
01/05/16 03:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,517
RiverRider
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I'd look for scope alternatives also. I had to do this for my Win 52 because of the bolt, and use higher than optimum rings also. I would never consider altering the rifle itself.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#6119799
01/05/16 05:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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My vote, which is worth what you paid for it is, use high rings, and buy a stock pack that you can add comb height without modifying anything.
This
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6120822
01/06/16 12:39 AM
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charlesb
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There's a reason why shooters do not want the scope way up high above the bore.
I mean, besides the way it looks.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: charlesb]
#6120864
01/06/16 01:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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Please enlighten us as to why that is.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: J.G.]
#6120955
01/06/16 01:39 AM
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charlesb
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Please enlighten us as to why that is. Tell us why it isn't, if that's your theory... - I'd be interested to hear about that. Why is it a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore, as opposed to having it as low as you can get it, as hunters have striven to do since the rifle scope was invented?
Last edited by charlesb; 01/06/16 01:41 AM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: charlesb]
#6120997
01/06/16 01:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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A scope sitting in high rings is not problem provided the rifle/ reticle is kept level with the world. Say a scope is sitting a full 3" above the bore, center to center, and zeroed at 100 yards. The holds are the same out as far as one wants to shoot as a scope sitting 1 1/2" above the bore, center to center. That is, beyond the zeroing distance.
The trick comes in when trying to hit inside 1 MOA inside 100 yards. The higher the scope is above the bore, the more correction is needed, due to sight offset. But no matter how high the scope is, precision at any distance is still achievable.
I think hunters wanted the scope closer to the bore because they weren't shooting level. And the closer it is, the less cant error was introduced.
I've shot 1 MOA from 7 yards (.07") to 77 yards, in 10 yard increments. 7 yard correction is the same as 875 yard correction on my rig. Have to hold it level, and have to hold it still, same as any shot.
Proper cheek weld, and natural point of aim are more important than keeping the scope close to the barrel. A scoped rifle should be set up to gain a sight picture almost as fast as gaining a bead on a shotgun.
Last edited by FiremanJG; 01/06/16 02:01 AM.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6121001
01/06/16 02:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 789
MClark
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Forging, Polish, and reblueing a bolt runs about $65-115. The notch in the stock where the bolt handle goes will most likely need to be opened. I would use a different scope.
Mark
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: J.G.]
#6121065
01/06/16 02:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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A scope sitting in high rings is not problem provided the rifle/ reticle is kept level with the world. Say a scope is sitting a full 3" above the bore, center to center, and zeroed at 100 yards. The holds are the same out as far as one wants to shoot as a scope sitting 1 1/2" above the bore, center to center. That is, beyond the zeroing distance.
The trick comes in when trying to hit inside 1 MOA inside 100 yards. The higher the scope is above the bore, the more correction is needed, due to sight offset. But no matter how high the scope is, precision at any distance is still achievable.
I think hunters wanted the scope closer to the bore because they weren't shooting level. And the closer it is, the less cant error was introduced.
I've shot 1 MOA from 7 yards (.07") to 77 yards, in 10 yard increments. 7 yard correction is the same as 875 yard correction on my rig. Have to hold it level, and have to hold it still, same as any shot.
Proper cheek weld, and natural point of aim are more important than keeping the scope close to the barrel. A scoped rifle should be set up to gain a sight picture almost as fast as gaining a bead on a shotgun. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore, but you can come up with a bunch of "if this and if that" that explain how somebody could (maybe) overcome the handicap. Then you disparage hunters for "not shooting level" because they have sought to keep their scopes down low for as long as scopes have been around. I hate to break it to you, but there's a bit more to it than that. A lot of it has to do with a natural sight picture that one doesn't have to strain or crane - to obtain. My rule of thumb on this is to close my eyes, then mount the rifle to my shoulder and get a good cheek weld as if to shoot. Then I pop open my eye - and if a good sight through the scope is not apparent, then I know that it is too high, or (more often) too far forward or back. After doing this hundreds of times with hundreds of hunting rifles, I have yet to encounter a condition where the scope was too low... I cannot really say that this surprises me, though. Anybody with common sense should be able to figure out why hunters have always assayed to get a scope as low as they possibly can.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6121081
01/06/16 02:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,486
kmon11
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Never owned a CZ 550 but have CZ 527. After Calhoun (20 cal rifle guys) started milling off some of the bolt handle and offering that service to customers and a couple others offering new bolt handles with more scope clearance CZ finally decided they could make that same modification to new guns but that took several years. The 527 modification allowed in many cases for medium rings to be used instead of high rings.
No idea if the same type mod would help with the 550 or not.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: charlesb]
#6121082
01/06/16 02:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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I've been behind many rifles owned by other shooters that the scope was too low for me.
So again, everything you write is not gospel.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: charlesb]
#6121112
01/06/16 02:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,436
TFF Caribou
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A scope sitting in high rings is not problem provided the rifle/ reticle is kept level with the world. Say a scope is sitting a full 3" above the bore, center to center, and zeroed at 100 yards. The holds are the same out as far as one wants to shoot as a scope sitting 1 1/2" above the bore, center to center. That is, beyond the zeroing distance.
The trick comes in when trying to hit inside 1 MOA inside 100 yards. The higher the scope is above the bore, the more correction is needed, due to sight offset. But no matter how high the scope is, precision at any distance is still achievable.
I think hunters wanted the scope closer to the bore because they weren't shooting level. And the closer it is, the less cant error was introduced.
I've shot 1 MOA from 7 yards (.07") to 77 yards, in 10 yard increments. 7 yard correction is the same as 875 yard correction on my rig. Have to hold it level, and have to hold it still, same as any shot.
Proper cheek weld, and natural point of aim are more important than keeping the scope close to the barrel. A scoped rifle should be set up to gain a sight picture almost as fast as gaining a bead on a shotgun. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore, but you can come up with a bunch of "if this and if that" that explain how somebody could (maybe) overcome the handicap. Then you disparage hunters for "not shooting level" because they have sought to keep their scopes down low for as long as scopes have been around. I hate to break it to you, but there's a bit more to it than that. A lot of it has to do with a natural sight picture that one doesn't have to strain or crane - to obtain. My rule of thumb on this is to close my eyes, then mount the rifle to my shoulder and get a good cheek weld as if to shoot. Then I pop open my eye - and if a good sight through the scope is not apparent, then I know that it is too high, or (more often) too far forward or back. After doing this hundreds of times with hundreds of hunting rifles, I have yet to encounter a condition where the scope was too low... I cannot really say that this surprises me, though. Anybody with common sense should be able to figure out why hunters have always assayed to get a scope as low as they possibly can. He never one time said it was better to have a scope high, but that it wasn't an insurmountable issue. Maybe you have the reading comprehension issue you so like to point out in others. For instance, high rings+a cheek riser over come basically every issue you listed. Still provide a natural head position, and proper sight picture.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#6121148
01/06/16 03:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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A scope sitting in high rings is not problem provided the rifle/ reticle is kept level with the world. Say a scope is sitting a full 3" above the bore, center to center, and zeroed at 100 yards. The holds are the same out as far as one wants to shoot as a scope sitting 1 1/2" above the bore, center to center. That is, beyond the zeroing distance.
The trick comes in when trying to hit inside 1 MOA inside 100 yards. The higher the scope is above the bore, the more correction is needed, due to sight offset. But no matter how high the scope is, precision at any distance is still achievable.
I think hunters wanted the scope closer to the bore because they weren't shooting level. And the closer it is, the less cant error was introduced.
I've shot 1 MOA from 7 yards (.07") to 77 yards, in 10 yard increments. 7 yard correction is the same as 875 yard correction on my rig. Have to hold it level, and have to hold it still, same as any shot.
Proper cheek weld, and natural point of aim are more important than keeping the scope close to the barrel. A scoped rifle should be set up to gain a sight picture almost as fast as gaining a bead on a shotgun. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore, but you can come up with a bunch of "if this and if that" that explain how somebody could (maybe) overcome the handicap. Then you disparage hunters for "not shooting level" because they have sought to keep their scopes down low for as long as scopes have been around. I hate to break it to you, but there's a bit more to it than that. A lot of it has to do with a natural sight picture that one doesn't have to strain or crane - to obtain. My rule of thumb on this is to close my eyes, then mount the rifle to my shoulder and get a good cheek weld as if to shoot. Then I pop open my eye - and if a good sight through the scope is not apparent, then I know that it is too high, or (more often) too far forward or back. After doing this hundreds of times with hundreds of hunting rifles, I have yet to encounter a condition where the scope was too low... I cannot really say that this surprises me, though. Anybody with common sense should be able to figure out why hunters have always assayed to get a scope as low as they possibly can. He never one time said it was better to have a scope high, but that it wasn't an insurmountable issue. Maybe you have the reading comprehension issue you so like to point out in others. For instance, high rings+a cheek riser over come basically every issue you listed. Still provide a natural head position, and proper sight picture. Once again its mostly personal preference. People are built differently. I like scopes low and don't care for stock risers.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: bo3]
#6121153
01/06/16 03:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,436
TFF Caribou
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A scope sitting in high rings is not problem provided the rifle/ reticle is kept level with the world. Say a scope is sitting a full 3" above the bore, center to center, and zeroed at 100 yards. The holds are the same out as far as one wants to shoot as a scope sitting 1 1/2" above the bore, center to center. That is, beyond the zeroing distance.
The trick comes in when trying to hit inside 1 MOA inside 100 yards. The higher the scope is above the bore, the more correction is needed, due to sight offset. But no matter how high the scope is, precision at any distance is still achievable.
I think hunters wanted the scope closer to the bore because they weren't shooting level. And the closer it is, the less cant error was introduced.
I've shot 1 MOA from 7 yards (.07") to 77 yards, in 10 yard increments. 7 yard correction is the same as 875 yard correction on my rig. Have to hold it level, and have to hold it still, same as any shot.
Proper cheek weld, and natural point of aim are more important than keeping the scope close to the barrel. A scoped rifle should be set up to gain a sight picture almost as fast as gaining a bead on a shotgun. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore, but you can come up with a bunch of "if this and if that" that explain how somebody could (maybe) overcome the handicap. Then you disparage hunters for "not shooting level" because they have sought to keep their scopes down low for as long as scopes have been around. I hate to break it to you, but there's a bit more to it than that. A lot of it has to do with a natural sight picture that one doesn't have to strain or crane - to obtain. My rule of thumb on this is to close my eyes, then mount the rifle to my shoulder and get a good cheek weld as if to shoot. Then I pop open my eye - and if a good sight through the scope is not apparent, then I know that it is too high, or (more often) too far forward or back. After doing this hundreds of times with hundreds of hunting rifles, I have yet to encounter a condition where the scope was too low... I cannot really say that this surprises me, though. Anybody with common sense should be able to figure out why hunters have always assayed to get a scope as low as they possibly can. He never one time said it was better to have a scope high, but that it wasn't an insurmountable issue. Maybe you have the reading comprehension issue you so like to point out in others. For instance, high rings+a cheek riser over come basically every issue you listed. Still provide a natural head position, and proper sight picture. Once again its mostly personal preference. People are built differently. I like scopes low and don't care for stock risers. I totally get that. Charles just apparently thinks firemanJG is the spawn of Satan. And we're all tired of his trolling and pot stirring.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6121156
01/06/16 03:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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From what I've seen that goes both ways.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: bo3]
#6121162
01/06/16 03:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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Don't start nuthin, won't be nuthin.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: charlesb]
#6121199
01/06/16 03:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,182
Dave3575
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There's a reason why shooters do not want the scope way up high above the bore.
I mean, besides the way it looks. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore
I can. Elevation. I run one of my scopes very high to get the elevation needed for long range shots. 60 MOA base and moving to a 120 MOA base. But charles probably doesn't want those facts.
Last edited by Dave3575; 01/06/16 03:35 AM.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: Dave3575]
#6121216
01/06/16 03:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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Impossible to hunt with that, Dave.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: Dave3575]
#6121240
01/06/16 04:08 AM
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Posts: 1,053
bo3
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There's a reason why shooters do not want the scope way up high above the bore.
I mean, besides the way it looks. In other words, you cannot come up with a single reason why it is a good idea to have the scope way up high above the bore
I can. Elevation. I run one of my scopes very high to get the elevation needed for long range shots. 60 MOA base and moving to a 120 MOA base. But charles probably doesn't want those facts. Have to ask what your shooting and how far to need that much movement.
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Re: Bending a bolt
[Re: booradley]
#6121296
01/06/16 05:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394
booradley
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I don't shoot super long range, 400 yards would be by max and I doubt that will ever happen. I'm going to forget about bolt bending and use the high rings, I'm definitely going to use the scope I bought for the rifle. If the cheek weld is not there I will raise the comb.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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