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Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6122830 01/07/16 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
The only thing you have came in here and stated over and over is "I am in the gun related industry and I support Obama taking more of the law abiding citizens of the USA 2nd amendment freedoms away from them."

Please if i have overstated it here please someone tell me. I still say NO MORE infringements on my FREEDOMS.


100% incorrect. You are still not hearing me or understanding me. What I have stated is that I am for a more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of firearms between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire a firearm without a background check. Why- because I don't want people who are not supposed to have a firearm have one- i.e.- criminals, mentally unstable, illegal alien, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to own a firearm and purchase it. And you think that's common sense? How the EO is going about it is wrong.


This is the most tired argument I have every heard. Since when does making something illegal keep criminals from getting their hands on it? It doesn't. All it does is make it a pain in the butt for law abiding people. Let see, pot is ILLEGAL yet people can get it anywhere. Herione? Yep its still illegal and you can get it on half the street corners in dallas. Prostitution? ILLEGAL but I bet I can meet you at the house with 2 whores in about a hour if I wanted too.

How about we just enforce the laws that are currently on the books instead of creating new ones that have a 0% chance of working in the real world?

How will it make it harder for the common Joe to acquire a firearm, if he is able to have one in the first place? Go to a dealer and do a transfer, ok, that's pretty easy. In theory, it should have one more method to prevent someone from obtaining a firearm that shouldn't have one. Will it change how criminals get their firearms, no. But there are many people out there that have things on their record that they "forgot" about that creates an issue with a firearms transfer. I have seen it first hand.


if it does not change how criminals get their guns what is the point that is what you have been preaching is it keeps guns out of their hands
and if that is not the case why should I as law abiding good guy have to do it?


i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6122836 01/07/16 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
But there is NO law currently preventing me from selling a firearm to you now, person to person, face to face. If I am selling a pistol, I would like to know that you are of sound mind and not a criminal. How would I know? A CHL or a background check would do this. How would I know if you are a criminal or not. I don't know you. Maybe you are the criminal.


that is a decision you get to make if you don't like it don't sell it


i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
Re: 41p is official [Re: luv2brode] #6122925 01/07/16 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
But there is NO law currently preventing me from selling a firearm to you now, person to person, face to face. If I am selling a pistol, I would like to know that you are of sound mind and not a criminal. How would I know? A CHL or a background check would do this. How would I know if you are a criminal or not. I don't know you. Maybe you are the criminal.


I assume that is also the way that you feel about selling your ammo without a background check? Is your ammo ever used in crime? How do you know?

If you practice what you preach, you must already do background checks on all ammo purchases? Sure, it's a pain, but if it saves one life, it's worth it... right??? That gun can't kill without ammo (at least not very efficiently.)

Come to think of it, that ammo can't kill without a gun... And that gun can't kill without that moron behind it pulling the trigger. The same is true of guns as that ridiculous gas/car rebuttal. Guns (and cars) don't kill people! As stated before, criminals WILL BE CRIMINALS! NO AMOUNT of red-tape laws will prevent or reduce that fact. Chicago, etc. has proven that!!!

It's sad to see that the left's crafty tactics are working...

Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6123025 01/07/16 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
That is my point. There is NO law currently preventing face to face transactions.

So my question is this then- What would be the first few steps or ways to prevent criminals from getting guns?


What about the other end of the spectrum? Why should I have to have a background check done if I want to sell a gun to a family member or friend I have known all of my life? Should I have to have a background check done if I want to give a gun to one of my kids?

If you really feel personally compelled that a background check is needed, why don't you just choose to go and transfer the gun through a FFL? Don't force me to go and pay for a background check when I want to simply sell it to my brother.



A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6123047 01/07/16 02:35 AM
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Not sure where I land on this. I see what Chad is saying but also see what others are saying. When I think about selling or buying on THF, the thought of having to go thru a FFL seems like a pain in the butt. But when I think about selling or buying on TGT, it seems like a good idea to go thru FFL.

Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6123055 01/07/16 02:41 AM
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I understand chad. I just don't fully agree. I agree there should be better control of people who shouldn't get guns getting them. But every time you buy a gun with the paperwork that gun is registered to you. So basically this paves the road for full gun registration and when they are ready to take them there will be little left this hide.


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Re: 41p is official [Re: passthru] #6123096 01/07/16 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: passthru
I understand chad. I just don't fully agree. I agree there should be better control of people who shouldn't get guns getting them. But every time you buy a gun with the paperwork that gun is registered to you. So basically this paves the road for full gun registration and when they are ready to take them there will be little left this hide.


Good to see that someone else out there can see through all the background check smoke and mirrors.

Re: 41p is official [Re: passthru] #6123137 01/07/16 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: passthru
I understand chad. I just don't fully agree. I agree there should be better control of people who shouldn't get guns getting them.


Mmmm...yeah, you stop letting them create and fund a culture having no regard for society and its laws in the first place---with your tax money, no less. They're creating the problem so that they will have an excuse to destroy freedom. Every bit of all of this is ENGINEERED.


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Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6123174 01/07/16 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Sniper John
Your statement could easily read

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of ammunition between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire ammunition without a background check. ..........So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to purchase and possess ammunition How the EO is going about it is wrong.



So you would have no problem with this. Background checks or a foid card system for all ammunition purchases and ammunition components. Add every purchase logged including amount and lot numbers. Restrict private transfer and manufacture of ammunition. After all even illegally possessed firearms can't be fired without ammunition. If not are you saying it is ok with you that criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. should be allowed to possess and purchase unlimited amounts of ammunition. It is no different than your view on firearms.


So, do we ban gas for the cars that kill people?


That is what I am asking you? From your analogy, I assume it is yes. Especially when you are condoning a president to trample our Bill of Rights by unilaterally imposing Second Amendment restrictions on his own after congress listened to the people and did not. This is not government control. It is control by one man in the name of Helen Lovejoy. If you can support that, it only makes sense like the residents of springfield in a bad simpson's episode, that you would support background checks or control of the people who possess any and all things that could harm you or "the children".

Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6123207 01/07/16 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The first thing I would do is update the database on which the background checks look at. It is very outdated with many institutions not reporting into it for people who shouldn't have a firearm not in the database.

Chad, you're so adorably naive the way you waive the magic "database" flag around. Skipping all the technical details, the same legislators who want all this information in a super-easy magic database are the same legislators who pass laws which set reporting requirements which are contradictory to designing, building, and operating the Magical Database. And when people say "Get it done anyway", the cost overruns become headline news and career ending events. Which is one reason no competent database architect will bid on one of these Magic Database projects.

Form 4473 will live forever....

Gary

Last edited by Gary Olson; 01/07/16 04:07 AM. Reason: Oops
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6123391 01/07/16 12:50 PM
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Who's to say that registration won't become part of background checks? Is it something that has to be voted in or can our gov't just decide to add it? Background checks are a pain but I can see the necessity...unfortunately I believe the noose will become tighter and tighter. We can still buy from someone on the net, TFF, etc., even just trade....most of us do this occasionally, will that last? As others have brought up, I look at this as a small step towards eventually knowing exactly (as much as they can) who owns what firearms. Then what?


Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6123465 01/07/16 01:58 PM
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What pisses me off the most about the EO is Obama saying that this would have prevented Sandy Hook and the San Bernandino shootings. Exactly how does fingerprinting NFA trust members correlate to this crime or any other? Oh and last time I checked the firearms used in those shootings were both obtained legally, at least initially. This was nothing more than an excuse to tighten gun control with lies as a justification. Seriously, what will be next if this stands? Maybe FFLs should be reimbursed by the government for the background checks they are requiring instead of charging people.

Last edited by rexmitchell; 01/07/16 02:05 PM.
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6123521 01/07/16 02:29 PM
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It's all smoke and mirrors but at this pace we are going to end up like California and then we will really have something to beatch about!


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: 41p is official [Re: krmitchell] #6123724 01/07/16 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
What pisses me off the most about the EO is Obama saying that this would have prevented Sandy Hook and the San Bernandino shootings. Exactly how does fingerprinting NFA trust members correlate to this crime or any other? Oh and last time I checked the firearms used in those shootings were both obtained legally, at least initially. This was nothing more than an excuse to tighten gun control with lies as a justification. Seriously, what will be next if this stands? Maybe FFLs should be reimbursed by the government for the background checks they are requiring instead of charging people.
I cant stand the man in office, but I havnt seen anywhere where he said this would have prevented the shootings at Sandy Hook and San Bernardino. We don't gain any ground by making stuff up.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6124097 01/07/16 06:57 PM
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no what he said was he would push his EO if there was any chance it could save 1 life.


i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
Re: 41p is official [Re: TFF Caribou] #6124201 01/07/16 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
What pisses me off the most about the EO is Obama saying that this would have prevented Sandy Hook and the San Bernandino shootings. Exactly how does fingerprinting NFA trust members correlate to this crime or any other? Oh and last time I checked the firearms used in those shootings were both obtained legally, at least initially. This was nothing more than an excuse to tighten gun control with lies as a justification. Seriously, what will be next if this stands? Maybe FFLs should be reimbursed by the government for the background checks they are requiring instead of charging people.
I cant stand the man in office, but I havnt seen anywhere where he said this would have prevented the shootings at Sandy Hook and San Bernardino. We don't gain any ground by making stuff up.



I'm sorry, him insinuating and blaming congress for not acting after Sandy Hook was what I was referring to.

Re: 41p is official [Re: luv2brode] #6179369 02/11/16 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: luv2brode
Originally Posted By: KRoyal
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

I think it would be easier if there was some kind of standard form or paperwork that 2 individuals could write up (like a bill of sale) and call in a background check themselves, independently of an FFL. This would be simple and much faster than going through an FFL. I do transfers, but I don't promote that I do them. Why, because they are a PITA to do and you have to keep the records on them.


I would think in Texas you could do it where anyone that has a CHL can sell to another individual with a CHL. There should maybe be a clause added to the CHL law that you can buy/sell/trade fire arms privately and not for business with a CHL. If you have a CHL you have already passed a more extensive background check than the NICS system anyway.


This would probably prompt a lot more people to get CHL's which is a good thing. Would also do away with the sketchy people that can't pass a background check or can't get a CHL going on the internet and meeting up with someone to buy a gun. This would ensure that everyone that buys/sells guns FTF have passed an extensive background check every 5 years.


Still unaceptable


Correct, unacceptable.


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: KRoyal] #6179380 02/11/16 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: KRoyal
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
Originally Posted By: KRoyal
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

I think it would be easier if there was some kind of standard form or paperwork that 2 individuals could write up (like a bill of sale) and call in a background check themselves, independently of an FFL. This would be simple and much faster than going through an FFL. I do transfers, but I don't promote that I do them. Why, because they are a PITA to do and you have to keep the records on them.


I would think in Texas you could do it where anyone that has a CHL can sell to another individual with a CHL. There should maybe be a clause added to the CHL law that you can buy/sell/trade fire arms privately and not for business with a CHL. If you have a CHL you have already passed a more extensive background check than the NICS system anyway.


This would probably prompt a lot more people to get CHL's which is a good thing. Would also do away with the sketchy people that can't pass a background check or can't get a CHL going on the internet and meeting up with someone to buy a gun. This would ensure that everyone that buys/sells guns FTF have passed an extensive background check every 5 years.


Still unaceptable


Why would showing your CHL when buying a gun from an individual unacceptable? You show your driver license to buy beer and cigs, but you can't be troubled to show your CHL when buying a gun?


You can show other ID as to age, that is a law, seller is not checking for DUI or Public Intoxication. I know some folks who actually should not possess a CHL because of mental issues.


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: KRoyal] #6179449 02/11/16 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: KRoyal
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
why should a chl be a requirement for buying a gun, that would still be an infringment of my freedom.
im old enough i dont get carded anymore


I'm not saying that a CHL would be required to buy a gun you could still go into a gun store and do an NICS check. I'm saying a CHL is an easy indicator that the person has passed an extensive background check, paid his taxes, has no felonies, pays his child support, and so on.

Fine lets not do the CHL how about a "background check card". You do a one time background check and you get a card in the mail and it is good for 5 years just like the CHL. You can use that background check card to buy/sell/trade FTF with other individuals, no card you must do the transfer at an FFL. In 5 years you'll have to re-certify your background check card same as CHL. They run another extensive background check on you and reissue a new card good for 5 years. Same as with the CHL you must report any changes like change or residences and so on. If you fail to do it your card will be suspended. Pretty much same rules as the CHL. You could even use these in gun stores to bypass the NICS check same as CHL. Also there will be no gun registry or paper trail because you'll still be doing FTF deals and buying/selling/trading with individuals you'll just have a concrete way of telling whether or not a person is legal to own a gun or not. Pretty simple stuff here.

Its like an instant background check in your pocket... I better patent this [censored].. LOL


So you get married and that means you want cheat on the wife for 5 years? Have a kid and abuse will not occur for 5 years? Will not get intoxicated for 5 years? Best joke since three top lies.


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: luv2brode] #6179455 02/11/16 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: luv2brode
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
I wish I could put down my 100's of thoughts about some of the posts above. There is A LOT of false info there on the posts.

Since I am an FFL, I see a lot of behind the scenes that other people don't see. As an FFL, we have tons of paperwork for new firearm transfers while completing a background check. Once the original buyer wants to sell it, he can sell it to anyone he wants- criminal or non-criminal, ANYONE. Take the most recent tragedy, the San Bernandino shooting. The guy sold his AR's to his neighbor/friend, the 2 muslims, that killed the 14 people. If the original buyer was required to complete a transfer to the 2 muslims, who knows if the 2 muslims would have passed that or not. But it wouldn't have been as simple as handing over money to get the AR's. It's a borderline straw purchase. How do you not see this as a problem!!

I have asked my ATF agents why there are no regs for background checks after the initial sale. They had no answer.

I also have a problem with individuals who "sell guns" as income and do it as a business, with no FFL. They buy guns from people, and sell them for a profit. But they don't carry the FFL that's required. They don't complete any background checks on the buyers. They don't pay any taxes on their sales. How is this a bad thing?

I have spoken to several FFL's and 2 class 3 dealers now about this new EO. All but 1 said this is not such a bad deal. 2 of us were all on board with it. I think if you really look into what this is, you may understand it more. I'm not saying I agree with Obama at all. But something like these regs has been needing to happen for a while. The next question is how will they pay for it, implement it, and figure out the logistics of this.


yes you are saying you agree with it that is all you have said from the beginning (I guess you would vote for your guy again- I have voted straight Republican ticket since I could vote, just FYI). you continue to repeat yourself that you are willing to give up more and more of the publics freedoms because you might make an extra dollar. that is the only reason i have been able to find for your post. F that! I've already said doing transfers is a PITA. I'm an 01 FFL because I have to be. I take possession of some firearms for my ammunition business, which requires me to have the 01 FFL. I already said I don't promote my 01 FFL and do transfers. So, that reasoning is 100% incorrect. If you understood the inner workings a little more FFL's and what goes on behind the scenes, it might be a little enlightening.

explain to me how this will keep guns out of the hand of criminals that want a gun, if no one will sell them one they will steal one. you are all for limiting the freedoms of the lawabiding while doing nothing to stop the criminals. You are 100% correct. Will it stop 100% of criminals- No, not at all. Will it possibly limit the availability of firearms to certain people who should not have them- YES!!!! You go through a TSA screening at the airport, right. It helps keep banned items from coming aboard a flight (most of the time, but that's another debate also!) Same principal with a background check. Yes, it is an inconvenience, but is it worth this inconvenience for possibly keeping certain criminal or unfit individuals from a firearm, IMO, yes!

you want to make a change, set a group not allowed to purchase or possess firearms (oh wait already been done) and set penalties for violations ( oh thats been done too) enforce those laws (thats what needs to be done)


My replies are in red


wow just wow
i dont believe it matters how ya vote it matters how ya live and if you are willing to follow a law that limits the freedoms of a free people it speaks volumes.
you will never convience me or most others on here how horrible ffl's have it if it was that bad no one would do it and most of us have either been,worked with or befriended ffl's. like most other things if you stay on top of the paperwork and keep your records organized it aint that hard.
yes the tsa is a different subject but since you brought it up, lets go there. No one in this country has the freedom to fly so yes those that wish to fly will accept the tsa (which is a freaking joke) those of us that do not wish to accept it as myself will not fly pretty simple. but since my forefathers 200+ years ago did not gaurantee me the freedom to fly shall not be infringed oh well. The last time i stepped off a plane was coming home from deployment, TSA didnt check us then either.

I am sorry you are so willing to accept the loss of your personal freedoms.

have a nice day and remember as John Wayne stated
"Life is hard its harder if your stupid."


But but but if if if ....
I agree with l2b...


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: RiverRider] #6179482 02/11/16 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
To say no liberty has been lost is to overlook the liberty stolen by NFA and GCA68. This is all just a warmup and letting out the clutch to get things moving. The throttle ain't been touched. Yet.

I really have to wonder about anyone who fears other people's freedom.


Amen, because soon the next common question at the Doctors office will be "Do you have any guns"? "Sorry sir, we can't perform that needed surgery if you own guns because the Doctor cant give you any painkillers"....


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: caddokiller] #6179563 02/11/16 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: caddokiller
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
The only thing you have came in here and stated over and over is "I am in the gun related industry and I support Obama taking more of the law abiding citizens of the USA 2nd amendment freedoms away from them."

Please if i have overstated it here please someone tell me. I still say NO MORE infringements on my FREEDOMS.


100% incorrect. You are still not hearing me or understanding me. What I have stated is that I am for a more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of firearms between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire a firearm without a background check. Why- because I don't want people who are not supposed to have a firearm have one- i.e.- criminals, mentally unstable, illegal alien, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to own a firearm and purchase it. And you think that's common sense? How the EO is going about it is wrong.


This is the most tired argument I have every heard. Since when does making something illegal keep criminals from getting their hands on it? It doesn't. All it does is make it a pain in the butt for law abiding people. Let see, pot is ILLEGAL yet people can get it anywhere. Herione? Yep its still illegal and you can get it on half the street corners in dallas. Prostitution? ILLEGAL but I bet I can meet you at the house with 2 whores in about a hour if I wanted too.

How about we just enforce the laws that are currently on the books instead of creating new ones that have a 0% chance of working in the real world?


worthless
Before any of us waste gasoline.......


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: Sniper John] #6179581 02/11/16 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sniper John
Your statement could easily read

Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

more checks and balances system to provide background checks for sales or transfers of ammunition between individual to individuals, or any method individuals could acquire ammunition without a background check. ..........So if you are not in support of background checks, you are then saying it's ok for criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. to be allowed to purchase and possess ammunition How the EO is going about it is wrong.



So you would have no problem with this. Background checks or a foid card system for all ammunition purchases and ammunition components. Add every purchase logged including amount and lot numbers. Restrict private transfer and manufacture of ammunition. After all even illegally possessed firearms can't be fired without ammunition. If not are you saying it is ok with you that criminals, mentally unstable, illegal aliens, someone addicted to drugs, fugitives, etc. should be allowed to possess and purchase unlimited amounts of ammunition. It is no different than your view on firearms.


And let's enforce the Barney Fife rule, only one round of ammo, and that can not be loaded until immediate need. Also, just to make sure no one slips through the cracks lets put more scrutiny on anyone who reloads and sells hoping to make a profit. They should at least have to go through same vigorous testing as any mechanic. And random drug tests....


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: 41p is official [Re: Cleric] #6180080 02/12/16 12:15 PM
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CHL's and FFL paperwork are the same. They're both licensing. We all know what licensing is, right? It's PROFIT. Does the city require a permit to build an outbuilding in your back yard to protect your safety? Nope, it's profit. Same applies to TXDL and CHL ... and FFL paperwork.

Anytime you pay for a license, a permit, or any kind of "registration surcharge", read the fine print 'cause someone's printing money.


Pass the gravy.


Re: 41p is official [Re: ChadTRG42] #6181429 02/13/16 03:52 AM
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Txhillbilly Offline
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: luv2brode
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: GLC
There was not and are not "loopholes at a gun shows". If you purchased a gun at a gun show from a vendor you still went through a back ground check. Why does this statement keep coming up.


As an individual, you can buy a table at a gun show for about $20-$40 to sell whatever you want for the weekend. If you buy firearms to sell or have "your personal collection", you can sell them to whomever walks up with money in hand. This individual is not an FFL, and there is no paperwork or background check done to know that the person you are selling it to has the right to own or possess a firearm. What this EO is wanting to do, is if you are "in the business of dealing guns" (which has not been fully defined yet) is requiring a background check, which will require the seller to be a dealer.

Also, as an individual, you can bring your own firearm and walk around with it to find a buyer. It's a simple cash transaction, no paperwork or background check.

Yes, there are some FFL's at gun shows. But there are a lot of transactions that happen with a simple cash transaction.


you are correct

explain to us how this is a loop hole? the "gunshow Loophole" the PO(TU)S referances and the anti gun folk info pushed out to the masses is that there are no background checks done at a gun show, which is false. those required to do them do them to remain in good standing with the licensing agency.

I am sorry i almost feel like i am picking on you, but really.

at one time you could walk into a store buy a gun and walk out w a reciept being the only paperwork completed even for a machine gun, this should never have changed. our 2nd amendment right have slowly been chipped away and i refuse to surrender any more of my freedoms for govt control. If we were not such a p###sy whipped country this topic would never be an issue but there is a class of people out there that believe if you limit peoples rights you can stop bad people from doing bad things. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it does not work that way.


The loop hole is that not everyone goes through the back ground check process, whether at gun shows, face to face, on-line (and yes you can buy a rifle (not a handgun) in Texas on-line without going through an FFL and have it shipped to you directly with no background check or paperwork). If you are an FFL, the paperwork and background check are verified. If you are an individual, or an individual "dealing in firearms" that does not have an FFL, there is no paperwork or background check completed on the buyer. There are many "gun dealers" at gun shows, on-line, and/or are in the business of selling guns that are not FFL.


Chad,Here's the problem I have with all this BS. It's my property,I own it-Not you (a FFL),nor the Government. If I want to sell my personal property,I can sell it to whomever I want.
A firearm is the only personal property that the government wants to regulate the citizens private dealing on. Cars kill more people than guns,yet I can sell my personal vehicle to anyone that I want to,and they could leave my house and go run it through a crowd of people 10 minutes later.

A criminal can gain access to a firearm easily through theft or black market.Very few criminals or people that know they can't legally buy a firearm ever try to buy from a licensed FFL or even go to a gun show to try and buy from an individual selling privately owned firearms there.
If I wasn't white,I could drive up to Ft.Worth and buy a truck load of illegal firearms tonight in a number of places that happily sell firearms to criminals.

Background checks don't stop a damn thing the criminals do,they only affect law abiding citizens.

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