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More beginner questions - over pressure signs
#6110359
12/31/15 12:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,176
Korean Redneck
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Apparently a sign of over pressure is if the primer seems flattened. I just loaded a first batch and they all look like it's flattened. The rounded shoulder is noticeably less rounded than a shot primer. Other than this i don't see anything else from what little I know to look for. The loading was the following:
308 once fired federal gold brass Cci large rifle primer Varget 43.0-45.2grn Hornady 168 Bthp Seat depth 2.200" from case to ogive (for ref, a federal gold match smk 168 measures 2.225" with the Sam stool set up)
Is this ok, not ok? Did I do something in the grass prep. I found my landing seems relatively tight. I have to drag my bullets about 0.025" shorter than factory federal. Could that cause this primer flattening?
Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm thinking I don't need to worry about this but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110398
12/31/15 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
Buzzsaw
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pics of bases? load data looks ok
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110416
12/31/15 01:04 AM
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Korean Redneck
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Best one I can take.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110534
12/31/15 01:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Michael W.
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According to my Nosler book, that is a OK loading. You can go up to 46 grns. A little bit of flattening is not a problem. Watch for cratering around the indentation. I don't see any in your photo.
A clear conscience is often the sign of a fuzzy memory.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110592
12/31/15 02:20 AM
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Korean Redneck
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What exactly do u mean by cratering? Meaning the area where the primer is struck, that is actually bulges past the the flat surface of the rest of the primer?
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110675
12/31/15 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
Buzzsaw
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I think your good KR. cratering looks like a ring around the firing pin strike. If you have a reloading manual it should show a pic or maybe google or youtube it. Chad or Jason should chime in when they find this thread. Don't over stress it.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110835
12/31/15 04:23 AM
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ASIC777
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Cratering: The primer metal flows back into the void between the firing pin and the bolt face. The appearance will be metal that sticks up above the flat surface of the primer in a ring around the firing pin indentation. I don't see any in your picture. BTW, its only one of the signs of excess pressure.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6110988
12/31/15 11:58 AM
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RiverRider
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Cratering is not necessarily a pressure sign, though.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6111150
12/31/15 02:08 PM
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jeepercreeper
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I loaded up some brand new Lapua brass with Federal 210M primers last night. You wanna look at flat primers, LOL. My hand is sore because some of those dang primer pockets were sooooo tight.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6111277
12/31/15 03:20 PM
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J.G.
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Bet I've shot 5000 rounds with minor cratering on each primer.
You have have soft Federal brass, with no extractor mark. If that is the load the rifle likes, run it.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: ASIC777]
#6111414
12/31/15 04:19 PM
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Buzzsaw
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Cratering: The primer metal flows back into the void between the firing pin and the bolt face. The appearance will be metal that sticks up above the flat surface of the primer in a ring around the firing pin indentation. I don't see any in your picture. BTW, its only one of the signs of excess pressure. best description I've seen without a picture
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6112291
01/01/16 01:13 AM
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Michael W.
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What exactly do u mean by cratering? Meaning the area where the primer is struck, that is actually bulges past the the flat surface of the rest of the primer? Good description Buzzsaw gave. Here is a photo.
A clear conscience is often the sign of a fuzzy memory.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6112971
01/01/16 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
Buzzsaw
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.243 cases, KR are you overloading your Wife's Savage again?????
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6113130
01/01/16 05:41 PM
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ChadTRG42
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The 2 main signs of pressure are sticky bolt lift and shiny spots on the case head from the ejector or bolt face. I don't pay much attention to the primer, honestly.
Primer- different rifles will exhibit various characteristics on the primer. Bolts with a larger firing pin opening will easily show raised edges around the firing pin strike. Bolts with small or no clearance around the firing pin will not show any raised edges. Also, different primers will flatten out easier than others. Standard primers (non-magnum) primers have a thinner cup, and will flatten out easy, even on mild loads. For this reason, I don't pay attention to these signs. (Now, if you are piercing or blowing primers, then yes, that's a sign!!)
Keep your loads within "common sense" powder charges/loads. In this case, the max charge listed is 45.2 grains of Varget with normal FC brass (not military brass with less internal case volume). I know that 46.0 is about max with a 168, as other loading data also lists. So, the powder charge is getting near the max, and is within "common sense" powder charges.
I also look at the speeds on everything I shoot. I know about where the speeds should be on the combination of caliber, bullet and powder I am testing. If you are getting excessive speeds, then maybe a hot load. Also, as you increase your powder charge (I use .3 to .4 grain increments increasing), you will gain speed, about 25-30 fps per .3 grains of powder. Once you reach max pressure, you velocity will level off, and not increase any more. Often times, as you continue to go up in powder charge while at the rifles max pressure, your velocity will go down from the previous loads. This is when I know I'm at pressure and at max speeds I will get with the caliber, bullet and powder combo I am shooting. It is good to know this, so you know where the max.
Everything above is data shooting UNsuppressed! Once you add a suppressor, a lot of things change. A suppressor adds more back pressure, and increases the pressure of a load by about 5000-7000 psi. So a max load shot normal with a suppressor can easily be a over max or hot load with a can. So, test your loads on how you plan to shoot them.
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#6114000
01/02/16 01:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
Buzzsaw
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that's a bad reloading dude!!
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Re: More beginner questions - over pressure signs
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6114208
01/02/16 04:06 AM
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J.G.
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that's a bad reloading dude!! Walking loading manual.
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