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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#6109057 - 12/29/15 10:22 PM selling and shipping firearms to individuals
jerbisho Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Midland, TX
I've bought a few long guns here on THF from other users and we've always done a Face-to-face transfer of the gun. But, does anyone have any experience in shipping to a buyer? Is that even legal?

Also, I'm not too concerned about me buying a gun because I am legal to purchase firearms. However, how do I know that a potential buyer is legal if I want to sell a gun? Do I need them to complete a 4473? Who would do the background check if I had them complete it? Or, I've heard that I'd be exempt as long as I don't sell more than 5 guns in a 12-month period. What about it being a handgun versus a long-gun?

I know I have lots of questions here, but I'm just unsure of what's legal and how to go about transferring it to the buyer. Thanks for the help!

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#6109176 - 12/30/15 01:37 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
scalebuster Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 1910
No background check is required between individuals. I called the ATF about shipping guns instate. They told me it was legal to ship long guns but not handguns person to person in Tx. Call the ATF field office in Dallas, they'll answer your questions.

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#6115495 - 01/02/16 08:49 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: scalebuster]
Shooter5645 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: San Antonio TX
Yes you can ship a pistol if both seller and buyer are both in Texas, no need to go through an FFL........see below from ATF...

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

Q&A Category:
Unlicensed Persons
Last Reviewed August 31, 2015

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#6116970 - 01/03/16 06:56 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
ebfc Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas
The catch is "Requires that the carrier be notified". Most, well really all the ones I know of, of the common carriers will not ship this way because of their policy. They could ship but they won't do it. You can ship a long gun as an individual through the post office but I believe they want a copy of an FFL to ship.


Edited by ebfco (01/03/16 06:57 PM)
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#6117132 - 01/03/16 08:12 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: ebfc]
Shooter5645 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: San Antonio TX
Originally Posted By: ebfco
The catch is "Requires that the carrier be notified". Most, well really all the ones I know of, of the common carriers will not ship this way because of their policy. They could ship but they won't do it. You can ship a long gun as an individual through the post office but I believe they want a copy of an FFL to ship.


Never had a problem with UPS or FedEx.

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#6117142 - 01/03/16 08:15 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
ebfc Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas
You told them?


Edited by ebfco (01/03/16 08:26 PM)
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#6117147 - 01/03/16 08:18 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: Shooter5645]
Grizz Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 5845
Loc: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted By: Shooter5645
Originally Posted By: ebfco
The catch is "Requires that the carrier be notified". Most, well really all the ones I know of, of the common carriers will not ship this way because of their policy. They could ship but they won't do it. You can ship a long gun as an individual through the post office but I believe they want a copy of an FFL to ship.


Never had a problem with UPS or FedEx.


The biggest problem I've seen with UPS is people using the UPS stores, not the actual UPS hubs. The UPS stores operate separately from UPS and they generally won't ship firearms. UPS has no problem shipping firearms, at least in my experience.
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#6117398 - 01/03/16 10:30 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
jerbisho Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Midland, TX
So I finally got it shipped, but ran into several issues along the way:

1) UPS, FedEx, DHL, and Lone Star Overnight all said the same thing that they would not ship per their policy even though the laws allowed them to. I assume they just are not willing to take on that risk.

2) The US Post Office will not ship a handgun. Period. They will only ship long guns with FFL's involved.

3) I visited the FedEx store and they said I would have to go the hub. I called the 800 number for each of UPS/FedEx/DHL/LSO and they all said the same, but even if I went to the hub, they wouldn't ship without FFL.

4) I was also told that some carriers scan all packages for firearms and would confiscate the shipment, and other perform random checks of packages. I find that hard to believe that they'll just open packages... but whatever.

5) I finally just broke down and found an FFL in the area and shipped to the buyer that way. However, when I presented it to FedEx, they didn't even look at the FFL and didn't take a copy of it or do anything. So, although it's not the proper thing to do, I could have just shipped it to the original intended recipient and just "said" that he's an FFL unless this was just a fluke and the employee didn't do her job properly.

Looks like shipping to an FFL and paying their fee is the path of least resistance. I hope this thread helps someone in the future.
Thanks for all of your input!

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#6117493 - 01/04/16 03:59 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: Shooter5645]
RedRanger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
Originally Posted By: Shooter5645
Originally Posted By: ebfco
The catch is "Requires that the carrier be notified". Most, well really all the ones I know of, of the common carriers will not ship this way because of their policy. They could ship but they won't do it. You can ship a long gun as an individual through the post office but I believe they want a copy of an FFL to ship.


Never had a problem with UPS or FedEx.


I tried to ship a handgun back to Smith/Wesson (Mechanical Issue) via FedEx, I went to office in Addison they told me no.

I called Smith/Wesson, they gave me a number to FedEx for priority pickup, I called they said they would come to my house and pick up the gun and wanted to know what time I wanted them to be there, They gave me a 2 hour window. The sent driver to pick up my package and few weeks later Smith Wesson shipped gun back to me via fed ex, after that I have became a SW fan..
_________________________


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#6118787 - 01/04/16 07:59 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
ebfc Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas
An FFL can ship a handgun to another FFL with the post office, because of that using an FFL and having them ship Priority Mail is usually cheaper than shipping direct to an FFL and having to use overnight.
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Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.

Oscar Wilde

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#6119230 - 01/05/16 06:11 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
hopalong Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 1409
Loc: manager, drake river ranch (fo...
I just sent a long gun to iowa via ups, they have directions on the web site on how to go about it.

must be a ups hub, not a satellite, gun must be taken apart and no ammo in same container.

must declare it is a rifle, must have adult sig on rcpt of package

you must ship to an ffl if out of state no matter what type weapon it is, fed law.

for a pistol just ship in two packages, declare it as parts and leave it at that, I had to send my upper to windham and ups came and picked it up and brought it back.

only problem I had with the rifle was the lady in hugo had no clue what co. policy was, tried to refuse it and gave me a ration for a few till I schooled her on what ups has on the website.
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#6119455 - 01/05/16 08:44 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
Marc in Bastrop Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 712
Loc: Bastrop County
Don't overlook the fact that the ATF specifically allows you to ship your own guns to yourself in another state. There are rules to follow, like YOU must be the only one to open the box, etc.

But the law allows me to ship my guns to my friends house in another state, so that I can fly out there and go shooting with him. Just be aware of local jurisdictions - like the City of Los Angeles will jail you for possessing a single 50 BMG round, while the rest of LA County only outlaws the rifle itself.

The ATF has done a good job of making the rules crystal clear on their website. It is worth browsing when questions arise - especially with arbitrary executive orders being slung around like manure!

Marc


Edited by Marc Kurth (01/05/16 08:46 AM)
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#6119892 - 01/05/16 11:40 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
ebfc Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas
The part with the serial number is a firearm even if it only one part and you have to declare it as a firearm. You can't "split up" a firearm and send it as parts unless you do not ship the numbered part. An AR "upper" is not numbered and is just a part with no restrictions unless a local one.


Edited by ebfco (01/05/16 11:42 AM)
_________________________
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.

Oscar Wilde

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#6119960 - 01/05/16 12:13 PM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
pegasaurus Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 13812
Loc: South Denton County
Just label it as "machined metal parts"grin
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#6126813 - 01/09/16 07:58 AM Re: selling and shipping firearms to individuals [Re: jerbisho]
ebfc Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Dallas
Yeah. I agree with you it's stupid, problem with that serial number part is it is a "firearm" and you do that it gets lost or stolen you're just SOL and you will have issues related to not declaring a firearm.
_________________________
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.

Oscar Wilde

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