Anything up to deer, with discretion.

I think a .50 might be over gunning. Spitfires and Hurricanes had .303 caliber guns in their wings during WW2 to shoot other airplanes out of the sky. You'd think that any .30 cal cartridge would carry enough oompf to put some venison on the ground.

Sir on this forum there's no such thing as over gunning or undergunning. And EVERYONE knows EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING.

BUT are you aware the Military uses FMJ

I believe I read that somewhere?

I take it you have never shot a hi-shoulder shot.

FiremanJG, I put that scope on a DPMS 223 and turned it into a varmint killing machine. Think I'll try it on an elephant next? What do you think. With perfect shot placement it should kill one right?

There may be more sufficient calibers than the 223 that will make a more ethical kill shot, but hey I have a 223 so why not use it to shoot an animal much larger than that caliber is made for.

Black Panthers.

Umm the cat variety?

Yeah, but those were flown mainly by Brits. A .50 cal would take care of all of my hunting needs from rabbits to Messerschmitts.

Good point. The Ma Deuce - the ultimate all purpose firearm.

Great Ranch Weapon...

Thats AWESOME

So many people on this forum think that the headstamp matters more than shot placement and bullet, and I'll never understand that. The fact remains that the .223 is sufficient for anything that you can legally hunt in Texas, and shot placement remains king regardless of caliber...with bullet design being a close second.

To be certain, my perfect hunting rifle is a 223 or 223ai stoked with a 62 TSX at 2950 or 3150, respectively. It'll smoke anything available, with authority, and with no second guesses.

Next thing you know, you'll be hearing old timer's and "guides" complain about hunting with a gas gun...specifically ar-15's.

You have to remember some may not know where that location is on a deer. Some may think it's a high shoulder but instead it's right dead center just my 2 cents. I will put my 223 skills against a lot of high cal guys LOL!! That little 55gr Barnes is nasty round.

I am no expert but 6 years I hunted with a .222 and it worked great. I think a .223 will do just fine, I don't' see the need for all these higher caliber rounds, unless you are shooting far away. My dad had a 30-06 and thought it was way too much. He felt it went to fast and had deer run further (but always died). I shoot at 25-06 and I think it is a little much, but it is so accurate, I can't resist. My dad currently shoots a .223 and it does perfectly well.

I've never understood why a perfectly rational thinking deer hunter would choose a .223 for his expensive trophy buck hunt, while standing in the gun safe along-side are perfectly serviceable rifles in .25-06, 7mm-08, and .30-06. I want a load that will perform under adverse circumstances--when the chips are down--than one that requires "putting the bullet in the right spot" (a mantra you repeat ceaselessly while nodding to each other).

Now, if you're culling does, head-shooting hogs, thinning out the coyotes and prairie dogs, or even looking for a management buck, a heavy 70-gr pill from your .223 might be a good choice, but a 200 pound mature whitetail buck should give you pause to reconsider, at least in my view.

That said, and I've related this before, I know very well an Inupiat Eskimo in Alaska who runs his trap line in Alaska while carrying only a Ruger Ranch Rifle. This is grizzly country and early and late in the trapping season, the bears are out of their dens and foraging.....and hungry. When asked what ammo he prefers for grizzly medicine, he just shrugs and replies that he buys the cheapest stuff available on the local co-op shelf.

It seems that my Inupiat friend gives little thought to ammo adequacy, just as some of us do. It's almost become a competition to see who can push the envelope the farthest in his search for little pills to bag big animals.

What was ever wrong with your 7mm-08 or .270?

Consider a 200 yard shot on a that trophy buck from a 7-08 vs a properly loaded .223:

7-08, nosler 140 at 2800 - .4 mil elevation, and 2400fps on target.
223, 62 tsx at 2900 - .5 mil elevation, and 2260fps on target.

Consider also the significant reduction in recoil, and the fact that you can (should) pile primers at the range for less than half the cost.

I'm failing to see the downside...especially on thin skinned, medium game animals. The .223, properly loaded, drops them well beyond fine, and I've zero reservation in that regard.

"I want a load that will perform under adverse circumstances--when the chips are down--than one that requires "putting the bullet in the right spot" "

Thanks Dwaba. That belief IMO is exactly why I've had several more hunters lose nice bucks shooting 30 cal than shooting .22 cal.

I have seen the opposite of that belief proven over and over again.

And judging by your handle....a .223AI would be better yet!


I certainly hope so, because its my "go to" rifle for deer. I have opted for 55 grain TTSX though, and it has been excellent in any of my AIs....

I'll throw in my .20 cents worth. I've hunted deer all my life, taken the wife, kids, ect. I shoot a Remington 700 30-06. Bought it as a junior in high school when I was legally old enough to purchase a gun. It's killed many deer and the occasional pig. Right behind the shoulder and never have to do a track job. The wife and kids shoot a 243, using 95gr hornadys. Most shots are under 100 yards for them. Every deer they've shot even with perfect shot placement takes it and I end up tracking for 100 to 800 yards. That's fine except when the deer cross on neighbors places or get to the thick stuff which makes it hard to recover. One thing I love more than deer hunting is predator hunting. I've used a 223 for the longest time. Ive seen coyotes and fox take a 223 behind the shoulder in the lungs, even the heart and still run several hundred yards. I've lost contests because every now and then u can't find them. I've seen fox take a 223 in the shoulder, blow his guts out and still manage to make it another 200 yards dragging them 5 yards behind him. 223 is adequate for coyotes and fox but I'm moving to the 243 if I'm hunting coyotes only this year. My thoughts are if a 35lb coyote or 10lb fox can take a 223 and still make it several hundred yards, sometimes to never be found. I can't imagine having it as my go to gun for deer. I wonder how many who swear by it for deer have lost just as many deer as they've recovered? Mind boggling. But hey to each his own.