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New Hunting Club in Colorado #6092899 12/20/15 04:27 AM
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Hello everyone,

I'd like to take a moment and let you know about a new Hunting Club in Colorado, called: Wilderness Hunting Club

The thing that sets us apart from every other hunting club is that our Members are fractional owners of all club property! Our Members are involved in the approval and/or denial of club property purchases, in addition to establishing the guidelines for the number of hunters permitted per property, etc.

If you're looking for a club where your opinion matters, then please check us out!

Memberships will be available January 1st, 2016 and memberships are limited to 180. All future memberships will only be available to individuals who are referred by current Members.

As a hunting club, we are focused on providing our Members with the best opportunity to harvest trophy mule deer, elk, and other big game. As a company, we are focused on providing our Members with an opportunity to build a heritage that can be passed down to future generations. As mentioned, our Members are fractional owners of all club property that is purchased. We are primarily interested in properties within Western Colorado and specifically Southwestern Colorado; such as the Durango area. We are not limited to purchasing hunting properties; rather, we will consider all recreational properties, mining claims, and/or business opportunities that can benefit the livelihood and well being of our Members and their families.

Please take a look at our website for more information. I'm still adding to the site, and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me via the "contact" tab on the site; or you can post your questions here as well.

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to speaking with you in the near future!

- Tekoa

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6094041 12/21/15 03:07 AM
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what do yall think of this..hmmmmm

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6094184 12/21/15 04:52 AM
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I'm wondering how much land 180 people are going to have to hunt?


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Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6094200 12/21/15 05:07 AM
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Shows on the website they are planning on buying property in a few units but doesnt show they owm or what they have now. Sounds like someone is trying to get people to buy lamd for them.


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Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6094454 12/21/15 02:30 PM
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What experience do you have running something like this?
How are land decisions made? Vote? Council?
What are the rules on land access?
Do you currently own land?
Why hunt this as opposed to public land?

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: BBD84] #6094903 12/21/15 06:28 PM
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BBD84,

Thanks for the comment. First I'd like to say that you're not buying land for the company; only the Members own the land. Wilderness Hunting Club and its owner Wilderness Properties LLC has no personal stake or ownership in the properties that are purchased via your fractional ownership fee (unless we kick in money right along with you - the same rules would apply to us). As of right now, I'm securing 140 acres surrounded by the Arapaho National Forest, James Peak Wilderness, and Indian Peaks Wilderness in GMU 28. The property is behind a locked gate, and public access is non-existent.

I'm looking at 4 properties in the Durango region (for purchase). The key thing to recognize, is that WHC is focused on the betterment of its Members, and I want you to be actively involved in the approval and/or denial process of the properties.

Thanks for the comment!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: 338ultra] #6094914 12/21/15 06:35 PM
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338ultra,

Thanks for the comment. To answer your question, our ultimate goal is to purchase 10 properties (with a minimum of 5-7), limiting hunting access to 18 - 30 per property for the big game seasons (total). Doing so is going to provide you with the best opportunity to harvest a trophy animal.

I would be bonkers saying that all 180 will hunt on one property! Because the club is focused on Member involvement and Member ownership of the properties that are purchased; the decision regarding the number of individuals allowed per property will be in accordance with the Members input.

Thanks again for the comment! Great question!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: mow] #6094918 12/21/15 06:37 PM
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mow,

Thanks for the comment. At the very least, I'm hoping that everyone will be intrigued enough to ask additional questions!

Thanks for the comment!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: Cleric] #6094999 12/21/15 07:34 PM
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Cleric,

Thanks for commenting; you raise some important questions.

To start off with, I'll let you know what I do as my day job. I work for the State of Colorado as a Labor & Employment Specialist; and I am the sole employee at the Granby Workforce Center in Granby, CO. (970-887-1857 office #) I help job seekers find jobs, in addition to assisting them with employment discrimination claims, unemployment claims, and everything related to preparing themselves for work. I also assist employers with posting jobs, in addition to answering questions about labor law, improving revenue, retaining employees, etc.

Regarding my direct experience, I have 30 years of hunting experience; but I've owned two hunting clubs in the past (when I was in my 20's). Unfortunately, I encountered some health problems that limited my ability to see those clubs to their true potential. I've continued to develop my ideas over the years, wanting to return to this industry at some point. That's where I am now. I've put together an opportunity that incorporates some traditional aspects of a hunting club, but provides it members with the opportunity to become owners of each and every property that is purchased.

Land decisions are made via voting of the Members. No properties are purchased without majority approval of the Members. Majority approval would mean at least 91 Members saying "Yes" (if all 180 memberships are filled). In order to be viable, we only need 18 Members to begin with.

I do not own any land currently. The land I'm securing is a lease; and I'm looking at several properties to purchase; but I want the Members to be involved in those decisions rather than you becoming a Member based off of a property I've already purchased (because you might not like that property).

I have a general format in place for land access, but it may be amended by the Members at our first meeting. I'll be adding a booking system to the website, and you'll be able to book a spot as they are available. There is a lot of development that needs finalized, such as: do all of my immediate family (spouse, children) have access to the properties, or are there age limits, etc.

Colorado does have a vast amount of public land; and harvesting a trophy animal is possible simply by hunting on the public land. The thing that sets this opportunity apart from traditional hunting is the amenities that come with being a Member; particularly the fractional ownership. We spend thousands of dollars each year to enjoy the great outdoors. Being a Member enables you to see where your money is going while building something that can be passed down to future generations. This isn't your typical investment; it's all about being part of something that is bigger than ourselves, while providing us with the opportunity to increase the well being of our lives and of our families lives.

Thanks again for the comments & questions!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6095083 12/21/15 08:32 PM
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To the OP, I have several questions.


-What is the target acres/member for land? Given your costs, I assume you likely have some assumed acreage target which the total $3.24M will buy the club? (180 members x $18,000 per member). Given typical Western game densities I would think you will need alot of dirt to effectively hunt 180 folks.

-Who sets the Harvest Targets for a property each season? Is it based on allocated land owner tags for that property from the state? Accordingly, how do you regulate harvest at those properties during the season?

-How many hunting opportunities do my membership fees get me each year? Set number of days?

-How do you handle assignment of hunters to properties? How do you handle priority, i.e. who hunts first seasons, second season, etc?

-You mention some of the property this year will be leased; in that case, the members don't really own anything, correct? Are the leases paid for by the "Fractional Ownership Fee" or the "Annual Membership Fee?"

-You say on your site that the "Annual Membership Fee" goes towards management and administration. If you figure 180 members at $1,800 per year per member that is $324,000. That's an awful lot of administration! Do you have some not-to-exceed for the management and admin fee, whereby any excess goes back into the purchase of additional properties? Finally, how about required maintenance to the properties such as roads, fences, brush control, etc? Is this covered from the "annual fee?"

If you have an example contract or bylaws of the organization that you can send to me I'll be happy to provide my email address.

Last edited by TxAg; 12/21/15 08:45 PM.
Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: TxAg] #6095284 12/21/15 10:29 PM
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TxAg,

Thanks for the comments & the questions. I'll just jump right in:

1) There isn't a target # of acres/member, and you have assumed correctly that a larger number of acres are needed to meet the needs of our Members. That is why I'll only be promoting properties that provide ideal situations (for purchase). Meaning, every property I submit to the Members for voter approval is going to have a minimum of 2500 acres of accessible public lands attached to the property. It's important to note that even though we'll have access to public lands, we want to have access to public lands that are not accessible by others; or in worst case scenarios, they would need to cover several miles to reach our access. The properties submitted for approval will range from 20 acres and upward. Now, 20 acres seems small (and in relation to hunting it is), but when it is an in-holding and surrounded by National Forest and Wilderness Area (no roads), then it's a property worth considering. For example, I'm looking at 4 properties on Vallecito Lake (google it to see how beautiful it is), and each of the properties are surrounded by National Forest and Wilderness Area. Check out this link and look at GMU 751 to see Vallecito Lake (Durango area). Two of the properties are on the left side of the lake (N) and the other two properties are located above & to the left of the 751#. Vallecito Lake is known for great fishing, but also for producing 400 class bull elk. There are other ranches in the area (up to 684 acres plus public land access) that I would like the Members to take a look at as well. In the end, the choice to purchase or not will come down to the Members.

2) I like the question; but it won't apply to us unless we bought a ranch that was 15000+ acres of private land. There is one available in DeBeque (GMU 31) but they're asking 32 million! All of the property choices are based upon harvest statistics; hunter population; herd size; and property cost. In essence, we are attempting to establish our harvest targets off the information provided by the State. It's too expensive for us to go the other route; and starting off we're not going to be able to establish the structure you're asking about (but we may develop into it).

3) I want you to be able to access your property as much as you're able to. WHC is an entirely different concept from traditional hunting clubs. We will experience some growing pains at first, but as we acquire property, those issue will dissipate. In Colorado, you have the option to purchase 3 elk tags and 3 deer tags in a year. So, if you had a Bull tag for 1st rifle season, and you bought an additional Cow tag for 2nd rifle season, and you bought a "private land only" Cow tag for Late rifle season (December - January), and spots were available on the property, then I'd want you to take advantage of it. It's your property, and you should have access to it as much as possible. This is an area that will be finalized during the first Member meeting.

4) Priority will be based upon membership # and if you've paid your fractional ownership in full or not. All of this can be amended by the Members as necessary.

5) The lease is a security blanket for this year; my number one priority will be to submit viable property purchase options to you. It will be at the discretion of the Members if we are to take on any debt (loan) in order to purchase a property. Leases are paid out of the annual membership fee only. Fractional Ownership fees are used solely for property purchases (which may include real estate, or costs for building a lodge on an existing property, etc).

6) Yes, $324,000 is an awful lot of administration. As we progress forward, the goal will be to be able to pay all property taxes & liability insurance from the annual membership; and buying properties with the annual membership fee is a priority. Member benefits will always take precedence over the admin fee. The annual membership enables me to provide you with incentives, such as: shoulder mounts for the biggest buck & bull harvested; equipment giveaways, and special drawings for hunting/fishing getaways, etc. The annual fee also enables me to surprise you with "you now have a 100 acre gold mining claim to explore". As mentioned, Member benefits will always take precedence over the admin fee.

I'm more than willing to provide you with the info you're asking for. Please fill out the "Contact" form on our website. I'll have everything to you before the 1st!

Thanks again for the comments and the great questions!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6095451 12/22/15 12:18 AM
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Seems interesting so fracional owners= 2500 acres divided by 180 = 13.8% ownership ?
Also can you leave your share to children given they take over yearly fees

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: huntinfishinsumb] #6095918 12/22/15 05:31 AM
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huntinfishinsumb,

Thanks for the comment, and great handle!

Just to clarify, the 2500 acres is not "one" specific property. Every property that I'm looking at to promote to the Members for approval has additional access to at least 2500 acres of public land.

The private acreage per property will vary, and may be as little as 20 acres to over 600 acres; but each property will also have direct access to thousands of acres of public land. In the examples I shared regarding Vallecito Lake, those properties are 35, 35, and 20 acres respectfully. Small in terms of hunting, but they provide direct access to over 5000 acres each. If we're able to find properties such as these, and turn around and place a nice lodge on each property; their value will increase greater than the larger acreage properties because they will be more desirable. Hence, you will be able to build an exceptional real estate portfolio. Of course we would like to purchase larger parcels; and we will consider each option carefully, weighing the pro's and the con's. Ultimately, the decision will be your's to either approve or deny the purchase.

Regarding passing your ownership on to your children: yes, your share can be left to whom ever you choose. They will have the option to continue the membership by paying the yearly fees, or they can sell their membership back to the Club for the original fractional ownership fee of $18,000 (if the fractional ownership fee has been paid). If the fractional ownership fee has not be paid completely, they can sell their membership back for the amount that has been paid. This is an area that will be finalized during the first Member meeting.

The next logical question is: "What if the Members decide to sell a property?" If you and/or your heirs are Members at the time of the sale, you will be compensated accordingly; based upon the sell price of the property and it's equal distribution among all the Members.

Another question: "Can we earn money with our Memberships?" Simply put, yes. If the Members decide to purchase a business opportunity (for example there is a campground on Vallecito for sale), the Members will be entitled to all revenues produced from such a venture.

Thanks again for the comment & questions!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6096110 12/22/15 01:42 PM
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"They will have the option to continue the membership by paying the yearly fees, or they can sell their membership back to the Club for the original fractional ownership fee of $18,000 (if the fractional ownership fee has been paid)."

What if the member, who is paid in full, wants to sell his share in say 15 years? After putting in $18,000 plus yearly fees, and seeing his property grow wth great hunting opportunities, and like you mentioned possibly a lodge on the property. Does that member when he wants to sell, does he only get back the $18,000 or does he get back a profit?


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Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: BigPig] #6096320 12/22/15 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
"They will have the option to continue the membership by paying the yearly fees, or they can sell their membership back to the Club for the original fractional ownership fee of $18,000 (if the fractional ownership fee has been paid)."

What if the member, who is paid in full, wants to sell his share in say 15 years? After putting in $18,000 plus yearly fees, and seeing his property grow wth great hunting opportunities, and like you mentioned possibly a lodge on the property. Does that member when he wants to sell, does he only get back the $18,000 or does he get back a profit?


Sounds like only original investment to me..

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: BigPig] #6096330 12/22/15 03:34 PM
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BigPig,

Thanks for the comment & question. The selling of the membership back to the club is going to be an option for heirs only.

If a Member wants to sell their fractional ownership, there will need to be a new Member taking their spot; and only $18,000 would be reimbursed to them. The annual fees would not be reimbursed. On the flip side, the Members will always have the option to sell a property, and profits can be made from that.

In the event the Members decide their fractional ownership value should increase based upon fair market value and/or property value; then an amendment can be added to the operational agreement (I have no issue with that). However, this should only be done after all Members have completed their fractional ownership commitment.

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6096346 12/22/15 03:45 PM
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Wilderness, you seem to have really thought this out or are very quick on your feet. Still haven't figured what one it is, maybe a bit of both...Good luck to you Sir.

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6096378 12/22/15 04:02 PM
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Hello All,

Thanks for all the great questions; please continue to ask them!

Here are a couple of questions that haven't been asked:

1) Is there a minimum number of Members needed for the club to be operational? Yes - we only need 18 Members to get rolling.

2) Do you think there is an optimal number of Members? While we would love to have 180 Members, it's not necessary. If we were to put a number out there, based upon fractional ownership fees, property availability, and such; the optimal number of Members is only 54. That doesn't mean we can't accommodate the 18 or the 180, because we can without issue; it just means that 54 Members would be a perfect sized club.

Thanks again for the comments & questions!

- Tekoa

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: DQ Kid] #6096398 12/22/15 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Wilderness, you seem to have really thought this out or are very quick on your feet. Still haven't figured what one it is, maybe a bit of both...Good luck to you Sir.


DQ Kid,

Thank you for the comment and the "good luck".

This plan is 20 years in the making; however, the insight from the questions asked does assist in the development of the operational agreement. That is why Memberships are not being accepted until January 1st. I want to make sure I've covered everything beforehand.

So, the foundational idea is extremely thought out; while at the same time, I'm able to address potential Member needs on the spot.

Thanks again for the comment!

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6096666 12/22/15 06:48 PM
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I would be interested in what the 2015 Colorado elk hunters group thread thoughts about this..sneaky,et all???

Last edited by mow; 12/22/15 06:49 PM.
Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: mow] #6096842 12/22/15 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: mow
I would be interested in what the 2015 Colorado elk hunters group thread thoughts about this..sneaky,et all???


mow,

What do you mean......sneaky?

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6097355 12/23/15 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: WildernessHuntingClub
Originally Posted By: mow
I would be interested in what the 2015 Colorado elk hunters group thread thoughts about this..sneaky,et all???


mow,

What do you mean......sneaky?


A group of us went to the otc hunt in Colorado led by someone with the handle sneaky.


It was a good time...

My question is what do I get for the money. Where we hunting we didn't see anyone else, there is a lot of land out there.

If there was cabins and such that makes life nice, but I don't know how they would be maintained. I think owners preference would have to be not allowed, so that cows are over hunted.

Going back to an earlier point I thought each person could only get one elk tag.

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: Cleric] #6097667 12/23/15 04:08 AM
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Cleric,

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm glad you had a good experience on your hunt. Which unit were you hunting in?

What you get for your money is fractional ownership of every property that is purchased via the fractional ownership fee, in addition to any properties I'm able to purchase for the club through the annual fee. Your ownership would include any structures that are built by the club on the properties (lodges, etc) in addition to any equipment purchased for the property.

Colorado does have a lot of public land; and a lot of that land is not hunted on. The main question to ask yourself is: "will spending the money to become a fractional owner benefit me and my family; or am I content with hunting in Colorado without being a fractional owner of hunting & recreational properties". If you don't feel the property ownership will benefit you and your family; that is okay. On the flip side, if you see the potential that owning property in Colorado has, then I encourage you to explore this opportunity further. This is not a decision that should be made quickly, and I want everyone to be able to make an informed decision regarding the club.

Regarding the cabins & maintenance, I will be handling that. If I need to hire additional help, that's okay; those costs are covered within the annual fee (administrative costs). There may be situations where I ask the Members if they would like to have a "work day" on the properties (for example: if we are putting a lodge together, I'd like everyone to be involved in the process; if they'd like to). None-the-less, I will be spending time at each property, providing maintenance as necessary, in addition to developing the scouting reports for the properties.

I do not want over-hunting to occur on the properties either. Depending upon the property size and the number of Members, we'll want to keep our levels between 18 - 30 individuals for all the hunting seasons combined (per property). This is an area that will be finalized with the input of the Members.

Regarding elk (and deer) tags - In Colorado there are 3 different types of tags: 1) "A" 2) "B" 3) "C". An "A" tag is your primary tag; meaning it's a bull tag or it's a tag you obtain through the drawing process. "B" tags are classified as "additional" tags and relate to "antlerless" tags, and some "private land only" tags (not all units have these tags). "C" tags are generally special tags given by the CPW for damage control, reducing the herd, etc. Please check out the brochure for more info regarding the tags: Hunting Licenses We would like to purchase properties that can accommodate A & B tags (C tags will be a rarity). Some of our properties may be geared towards a specific tag. For example, we may purchase a property in the Craig region in order to hunt Cows in December (Late season, additional tag), etc.

Thanks again for the questions and the clarification.

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: Cleric] #6098756 12/23/15 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
Originally Posted By: WildernessHuntingClub
Originally Posted By: mow
I would be interested in what the 2015 Colorado elk hunters group thread thoughts about this..sneaky,et all???


mow,

What do you mean......sneaky?


A group of us went to the otc hunt in Colorado led by someone with the handle sneaky.


It was a good time...

My question is what do I get for the money. Where we hunting we didn't see anyone else, there is a lot of land out there.

If there was cabins and such that makes life nice, but I don't know how they would be maintained. I think owners preference would have to be not allowed, so that cows are over hunted.

Going back to an earlier point I thought each person could only get one elk tag.
ive been following sneaky and a group of guys for a couple of years..first met them inour first meeting 2 years ago in Cleburne...was just wondering what they thought of this

Re: New Hunting Club in Colorado [Re: GuideAndOutfitter] #6098980 12/24/15 12:35 AM
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It sounds like a pretty good gig to me it will be on my mind for sure thanks for answering and I was just throwing numbers earlier

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