DQ Kid,

I appreciate the continued insight. It is important to know where clubs have succeeded and failed. Many companies have started out with the best of intentions and superb plans; but have failed for any number of reasons. That's where I feel WHC is different and can succeed.

Once again, thank you for the insight and the "good luck"!

stxranchman,

I'm fully aware that 640 acres is the same all over the US......If you go back and review each post (from the beginning), you will discover that all of your questions have already been answered.

Thanks again for commenting.

jorge,

Thank you for the questions and comments. Please be sure to read every post from the beginning, because I've already answered your questions.

You can sell a property at a profit, but not your membership; without an amendment to the operational agreement and approval of all members.

Regarding being paid like a consultant, that would only be applicable if a group of individuals formed their own club and sought another group to manage it. The difference here is that this is classified as "intellectual property" of which I own the copyright on my club and it's foundational structure. Meaning, if I wanted to use all $324,000 as my salary, I could. However, as I've already mentioned, member benefits take precedence over admin costs, and buying additional property from the annual fees (which are added to the member's portfolio) is a priority.

Thanks again for the comments and questions.

I have read through but its not crystal clear to me. There are a lot of moving pieces that have legal issues inherently attached to them.

So what would happen in this situation? Lets say you present a prime spot to members and in all respects "THE" place.

Scenario:

Say only 70% want to buy because of lets say $1.2MM price tag and the delta is to much for 30% of members (admin fund is what im calling it currently,since it is discretionary) so only a portion of owners want to move on it. The timetable is is middle of last quarter, november, and people are trying to get ducks in order. How would this be handled? I see it going down several ways and one would give me great pause. A.) The monies would rollover and be applied toward purchase. At this point what amount is your salary? Now with that said what would happen to the 30% that didn't want to move? Would they not have title to land or would they be allowed to hunt? B.) The entire amount of admin fund goes to your pocket. This isnt a malicious statement, but it is discretionary. This is the one that gives me great pause. Ive read through the posts and you having 100% control of admin monies is a little troubling for me and i think most. If you said you get "x" amount as a salary/fee and remainder goes to improvements, additional land, etc thats one thing, but sole discretion im not sure many would be comfortable with that. I wouldnt be. "Member benefits take discretion" but to what extent and i think the grey area in that statement makes for an uphill battle in this crowd. I am very familiar with 2 hunting clubs in colorado The Bluffs and Valhalla, and i love the concept of hunting clubs. Imo it sounds like this is more of you being a lease master with a paycheck, and a very large one at that. Thats a very uncommon practice here in texas. Im not against having a business. I would say 100% agreement for how money to be spent is a must in this situation and i dont see how everytime and every situation this will occur.

Also, if i own an interest in the land i have a title. So are all these properties already partitioned and meets and bounds established? It would be a legal nightmare to sell an interest without a partition deed in this scenario.

Fwiw, i wanted to start an upland club where one of our ranches is in south texas and basicalky emulate russel's valhalla, but for whatever reason, they just dont catch on very well in texas. Only part i know of that has had minimal success is east texas that borders Louisiana, and that's because its common practice there.

. For starters I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. Too many variables and not enough specifics. This is similar to selling an investment which requires a prospectus that puts in detail how things will operate and outlines who gets paid what. Also the acreage is too sketchy. Name me two similar clubs that operate in a a similar manner that have been around more than five years. You have, by your own admission, tried this before and it failed. Those are just a few of my reasons to be skeptical. Again come on this forum one year from now and report where this business is and then I may not be as skeptical.

I have but can't get past "the done this two times and failed before part". If you failed twice because of health concerns, what would make a 3rd time different? So humor me and answer the questions above that you have not answered. In particular the ones about management of the resource, the hunting of the land, taxes and any future cash outlays by the members. I will await your answers..again

I have seen these turn into a money grab and a lot of people buying land for one guy in the end. They are never managed and overbooked until people just leave or its shut down and a couple lawsuits are filled. Never a good thing to be apart of 2500 acres will not support 18 hunters period in the long run no thanks.

Just checking in for my daily entertainment.

Is this any any way a marijuana farm?

I'm just going to buy one of those 20 acre plots he listed and cut the rest of you jokers out

338ultra,

I wouldn't blame ya for doing it! They're too good to pass up on!

jorge,

Thanks again for commenting and the scenario. Members vote and either approve or deny a property purchase that is made via your fractional ownership fee. If there is majority approval, then the purchase is made. If you voted "no", you are still an owner of said property and you are able to hunt on said property. None of the fractional ownership monies ever makes its way to me; those funds are used solely for purchasing real estate (and such things as would be used or built on the property), all of which must be approved by majority vote of the members. With the annual fee, I have the freedom to purchase properties for you the members, without your approval. That is done as a means to improve your portfolio; nothing less, nothing more.

I understand your concern regarding my freedom with the annual fee, and that you want some "concrete" info regarding what type of salary I'd be receiving. If we go down that road, then we're getting away from the original structure of the club. What I mean by that is if the members are wanting to know what my salary is, then the company is no longer mine nor is it under my control. Hence, a management contract would have to be developed for "x" amount of years @ "x" salary per year, and a buy-out clause would have to be included because I own the company name and its brand. The problem with this is that it may cause members to pay a higher annual fee in order to cover a salary. For example, let's say $54,000 per year. There would need to be 30 members paying $1800 to cover the salary (based upon the annual fee). If there were only 18 members, they would be paying $3000 per year to cover my salary. At the same time, other contingency's would be needed to cover the salaries of additional staff members; and additional costs (property taxes, insurance, etc) would also be split equally among the members. Going this route is not viable for the members; however, we can figure out a solution that outlines assurances for the members. An example would be: $100 per member per month up to $4500 per month, based upon the number of members. In this example, if there were only 18 members, then I'd only receive $1800 per month; if there were 180 members, I'd only receive a maximum of $4500 per month. Additional funds can be used as directed by the members; which would include paying property taxes & insurance, buying additional properties, building fences, maintaining roads, etc. If those are the types of assurances that are needed, then we will put it together and add it into the operational agreement. I want all potential members to feel 100% secure in their decision.

I appreciate the questions, thank you.

Jorge,

Just in case you want to revisit the upland club option, below is a link to a great club that has become one of the largest hatcheries in the US. I started hunting pheasants out there 30 years ago.

Hatt's Ranch

stxranchman,

I appreciate the additional comments and questions. Regarding my health; it's fine now, 17 years past the prior situations, and I don't need to go into it any further. Regarding the other questions, they have been answered in other posts on this thread.

Auctioneer1,

Thank you for commenting. I hear your concerns.

Ok, so if the difference is made up by only a portion of members, why would non purchasing members receive benefit? Am i misinterpreting this?

Please clarify if titles are in the name of each member and proportional or transfered by means of partition deed. This is a tricky scenario imo. Is the land purchased by a holding company? I assume yes, and this is what you referenced in your last post regarding a buyout. Only legal way i see that to legitimately do this titles and partition deeds need to be issued by parent/holding company.

How does knowing what someones salary change the dynamics or intent of a club? I fail to see that. Its like if you asked me to oversee this operation and i said just put in "x" amount every month and all will be good. I dont know how you would feel, but i wouldnt feel all warm and fuzzy. Its all about transparency!!!

You stated "Going this route is not viable for the members; however, we can figure out a solution that outlines assurances for the members". You listed an example, but i think a clear cut delineation is needed. I think if you clearly define what that solution(s) is from inception this would help out alot.

Also, the fact you can purchase land without any member veto or approval leads me to believe that the land isnt truly owned by members, but rather your holding company. The absolute authority to buy and i assume sell land does not meet the legal description of truly owning the land.

In your earlier posts you say members represent an equal interest. What i derived from that is if there are 18 members and yall buy 18 acres each member owns essentially 1ac. If that is a correct statement then title at the very least needs to be conveyed and there has been no mention of this. Please clarify.

Also what if your company dissolves? Lets take the above example. If the 18ac is owned by 18 members how is the distribution going to take place. Not every acre is essentially worth the same amount of money so this is why i stress partition deeds. If thats the case how are things partitioned? Please clarify.

????

If the intent is to improve shareholder portfolio, this postulates a for profit entity especially when you are marketing the concept as "land ownership". Why would anyone have a real asset they cant make a dime on? So why couldnt i sell my shares or interest for 1MM if i found someone who was willing and able? Is this not possible because title is never given to shareholders? And all real assests are held by your company?

Im asking this because if this is legit myself and several people i know think this COULD be a jam up deal. Until the legal questions get answered though i see a lot of issues, and lawsuits flying around like crazy.

By the way, on your previous failures, did members get their money refunded or any value for their shares?

I'm just too dumb to understand any of this.

I have read through this whole thread and I THINK I understand it totally. I would from a "deal" like this but hey that's just me.
Good luck to the OP

Sir - I am sure you feel like you are not being treated fairly on the forum for your attempt to secure members for your hunting club. However if you take into account everything outlined in your information can you blame anyone? You are a brand new poster here and are soliciting hunters to join a brand new club and pay their hard earned money in hopes you can make it work. On top of that you have tried twice and said it failed. Your plan is to crowd a bunch of folks on small properties and hope that there is enough game to satisfy everyone. You also promise to make sure all the hunters on a piece of property will get along, respect each other, etc. Many new ventures start with good intentions and end in epic failure. Not to say it could not be done but the odds are way against a hunting club like this succeeding and members getting their moneys worth and/or their money ever returned if it does fail. If I am the first member to send you a check for $1800 and you are unable to gather enough other members to make this work, where does that leave me?

So I don't know the answer for how you make something like this work - but expecting experienced hunters and business people to join a club like this based on an internet forum and promises made is a tough go of it IMO. Best of luck

Properties seem like they'd mostly be beneficial as a base camp to access BLM. There's no guarantee the way the animals migrate that there'll be any on a property during an open season, which is why most folks prefer UW over PLO tags.

Waiting for responses to questions asked above sir.

Also in colorado you need to be licensed and insured to run a hunting operation. Can you please post these credentials to cross reference or email personally. Like Reagan said trust, but verify.