mow,

Thanks for the additional clarification. It's always a good thing to have buddies to bounce ideas off of. I hope everyone's questions are being answered.

Thanks again!

huntinfishinsumb,

Thanks for the vote of confidence; it means a lot. If I can be of any further assistance, just let me know.

Thanks again for the comments and the insight!

Here's a couple property examples, so you'll have an idea of what I'm looking at:

500 acres in GMU 53

Two in-holdings above Vallecito Lake in GMU 751

These are only a couple of examples, and each provides great incentives! The low cost for the in-holdings is simply unheard of!

Maybe I missed it, but what is your best guess of the annual fees per member?

A lot of homework needed here!

Something similar was tried by the American Sportsmen's Club here in Texas in the early 80's. They leased land and had membership paid then annual dues. They failed miserably.I would tread lightly and ask a lot of questions. A LOT of questions with 180 members and small acreage. Keep one hand on your wallet when considering.

Mr. T,

Thanks for the question.

Annual Fees: $1800

Your Fractional Ownership Fee: $18,000 Please view our website for more information: Wilderness Hunting Club

Thanks again for the question!

dgilbert,

Thanks for the comment. I agree, a lot of due diligence is needed to make an informed decision; especially with an investment of this caliber.

Please let me know if you have any questions that I haven't answered.

Thanks again for commenting!

stxranchman,

Thanks for commenting, and I appreciate that you are "looking out" for your fellow statesmen. It's unfortunate that this has been tried in Texas and failed; but it's impossible to make comparisons. The one factor that should be considered: "perform your due diligence so you can make an informed decision to determine if owning property in Colorado is right for you and your family".

You have to be careful when comparing 180 members to the sample properties I've shown. My goal is to have enough properties where there are only 18 hunters per year on a property. That would mean we need to purchase 10 properties at a minimum. When we figure in guests and/or family; we need to be closer to 15 properties. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm searching for properties that also offer additional access to public lands (minimum of 2500 acres). Right now there are several properties on the market that would suit our needs as a club as well as suiting the needs for an investment. For example, one of the in-holdings I shared already has a value of $345,000 (and it was foreclosed; with the bank asking $114,900 and it can be a short sale - meaning we can go substantially less). Buying this increases the Members real estate holding value over $200,000 from the word "go"!

It's also important to remember that no purchases from the fractional ownership fees will take place without the majority approval of the Members.

We are focused on Member involvement and built upon the concept of Member ownership. That takes out all the guess work. No system is perfect; but with engaged Members, we can "perfect" the methods to accommodate the needs and desires of the Members.

Thanks again for commenting, and I truly appreciate your sincerity and desire to protect your fellow statesmen!

The way Im seeing it so far is that WHC has been thinking about this hard and heavy for some time and really after a initial cost of 18,000 youll be paying half of what leases will soon be yearly to hunt great country and great animals im not saying not to be careful because we all know you can never be to careful but if everything wirks out for the better this will be an excellent investment because since hunting has became the popular thing to do now people with tons of money are running us little guys out Im interested to see how many from here give it a shot and what it becomes by 2017

A question that hasnt been asked is where all have you posted this it would be more comfortable knowing this has been put out to recruit in more places than just a Texas forum from a guy in Colorado

Nice scam....I will pass....

Roll-Tide,

It's unfortunate that you think this is a scam; especially considering all you have to do is verify the company with the Colorado Secretary of State. If you've read all the posts you should have saw that I am an employee with the State of Colorado; I even provided where I work and my office number. Why is this important? So you can perform your "due diligence" and know that this is legit. If you think I would jeopardize my position with the State (considering it is a permanent position with a pension) by building a business that is a scam.........well, that is laughable (to say the least).

Best of luck on your hunting adventures this year.

huntinfishinsumb,

I hear ya. I began posting on 12/16/15 on: HuntingNet and BowHunting

I posted here on 12/18/15 & I'm thankful for the questions and insights!

Next week I will be reaching out on: Georgia Outdoor News and Southern California Hunting

I started with the first two (HuntingNet and BowHunting) as a base to get the info out.

I've chosen each State to market to in accordance with hunters I've interacted with in the past, and the mutual respect that was shared between us and the passion they showed for hunting in Colorado.

Thanks for the question!

Who pays the annual taxes on the land holdings? Who pays increase in annual taxes on the land? Who pays for road maintenance? Who pays for fencing and repairs on fences? Who pays for utilities on properties? Who pays to clean up the properties after each season? Who runs security on property to keep the locals and poachers off them? 18 people per very small acreage property is a recipe for disaster. This is no more than a time-share hunting lease the way I see it. 18 people all with expectations of a bag limit when hunting in the same small area will deplete the resource after a short period of time. 18 people who have never met each other or know what the experience of hunter in camp is not a situation I want to be around.

Like stx, I have been around the hunting world for many, many years. I remember the Sportsmans club plus a number of others over the years. This may (or may not) be legitimate. OP may be totally on the up and up and sincere in his efforts - but he apparently has had two failed similar clubs due to health issues. What happens if the same thing occurs with this one? 180 people is a lot of folks to deal with and over $300K a year is a pile of money.

Me? I have no interest in this concept but if I did I think I would give it a year or two and then check back in for financial accounting, member references, etc. I have witnessed many new businesses with good intentions (inside and outside of hunting) that had a concept - making it actually happen is a whole different story. Nothing personal OP but truthfully, I have seen very few of these set ups last long term. Good luck to you.

PS: I would suggest you update this site on a regular basis to document your progress.

stxranchman,

Thanks for the comment and sharing your opinion. To answer your questions, those fees are already "assumed" within the annual membership.

A "time-share" doesn't provide the same incentives that have been discussed.

For some reason you seem to be basing your property view off of small acreage, and I'm not sure why. Each property that the Members consider for purchase will have additional access to a minimum of 2500 acres. In Colorado, 640 acres is 1 mile squared; hence 1 mile by 1 mile by 1 mile by 1 mile. 2500 acres is just short of 4 miles squared of property; that is not a small amount of property. Most hunters hunt within a 1/2 mile of their camp.

You raise a valid point with hunters not knowing how other hunters are going to be in camp, etc. That's why rules will be established, etc. However, when I was putting the ideas for the club together, my opinion is that potential Members will seek the advice of their hunting buddies and make a decision together; hence, you're not going to have 18 unknowns. It is my opinion that only 18 Members are necessary, and out of the original 18, word of mouth referrals will result in the remaining memberships being filled.

Lets consider for a moment that we reach our goal of having 18 hunters on a property (total, for the entire year). We now have to consider that some Members are going to be Bow hunters, some Muzzleloader, and some will hunt 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rifle seasons. Let's make the assumption that the number of hunters are equal during each season; that would mean there's only 3 hunters on the property per season. There's always going to be a solution to any problems we may encounter.

Thanks again for commenting and sharing your opinion.

tlk,

Thanks for the comment and sharing your opinion. I hear your concerns, and establishing a viable business can be a challenge. No worries, I didn't take your comments personally. I'm happy to update the progress of the club on the forum.

Thanks for commenting.

I have to respond to your statement about managing and handling 18 hunters. I have managed and been the least boss for eight years on a ranch in South Texas. We have 12 total hunters Who all live fairly close to the hunting area. I personally approve any member who comes on. I am also physically at the ranch much of the time. Even with that it is a pretty regular job keeping everything running smoothly. And we are pretty tight group. I am afraid you may be underestimating the effort and energy it will take to try to manage a 18 different hunters. Good luck with that. Just my opinion from years of experience

tlk,

Thanks again for commenting. I appreciate the insight regarding your experiences. While I'm confident in my abilities and those of the staff I've already assembled, I gladly take your concerns under advisement.

Thanks again for sharing.

tlk,

Thanks again for commenting. I appreciate the insight regarding your experiences. While I'm confident in my abilities and those of the staff I've already assembled, I gladly take your concerns under advisement.

Thanks again for sharing. [/quot. With all due respect, get back to me in one year and let me know how it is working for you. Not raining on your parade but I am afraid you are totally unaware of what you are getting into. And if you are not experienced in this process should you be taking other peoples $$$ to see if you can make it work? To those reading this - proceed with caution. The more I read the more skeptical I become.

Wilderness, you have to understand that large style hunting clubs have failed quite miserably here in TX in the past. I believe STX mentioned the Sportmans named one from the 1980s; my Dad had also mentioned one to me from the early 1970s also named Sportsmans something or the other. It was centered in deep South Texas, Webb county area outside of Laredo and leased several large prime ranches at the time. He indicated that it took on many members, maybe even in the thousands and by the time its 3-4 year run was over had basically "shot out" several large ranches and many surrounding properties. A lot of persons down that way will tell you that it started the HF reaction in many areas subsequent to it. Again, just giving you some perspective from a Texan's point of view. Again, good luck to you sir!

One square mile of land is the same in Texas as it is in Colorado. It is not about how many acres per hunter but how much game that square mile of land can support. If those 4 square miles will only support 20 animals then how many years can 18 hunters hunt that 4 square miles till they have shot all the animals that live on it? If you own only small acreage but have access to other land then it must be public land. How many other public land hunters will be hunting the same properties at the same time your hunt club is hunting it? Again, this is all about numbers. Numbers of hunters per property. Numbers of acres per hunter. Amount of game animals per property. Can each property support 18 hunters killing 18 animals per year every year from now on? Have you done any habitat evaluation or game surveys to see what numbers are? Nothing like raping the resource to line the pockets of the people in the office with money. That is money the founding fathers get whether the members ever see an animal to hunt or not. WHC, what is your background? Are you a hunter? Do you own any land yourself? Will you get to hunt for free on all the properties? How many extra hunters will have free access to the land besides the 180 paying members? Do you have a staff biologist on hand to survey and set bag limits? Will you shut off hunting when harvest quotas are reached? I see that taxes and insurance are additional annual charges, correct? Are you planning on land values staying the same for ever and taxes not increasing? Will you raise the annual fees per member next year? And the next year again to cover administrative costs and raises to founding fathers..I mean administration costs? If a member buys is spot, how many people are allowed to hunt of his spot? Who pays for the maintenance of land, fences, roads, etc? If this venture fails and land is sold do the paying "fractional owners" get their money back?????

If you own a fractional share why couldnt you sell it for say $100k after x number of years after improvements and such. Why would i only get 18k back? That doesnt sound like true ownership. Maybe i am misunderstanding. Please clarify.

Also, please break down $324k admin fee? What is the breakdown. The Admin fee is sounding like its being treated like G&A in accounting. its a blanket thing when running a business and very broad and open ended. What exactly is the breakdown, i.e. what is your salary for managing. I would think that since members are owners and you and your company are ssentially being paid like a consultant, that admin fee should be clear as day.

tlk,

Once again, I appreciate your comments and concerns. I'm fully aware of what's at stake, and what's needed for the club to be viable & successful. I understand the concerns that have been relayed; and it's important for anyone considering this opportunity or any similar to proceed with caution and due diligence. If an individual has any doubts, then they shouldn't move forward with becoming a member.

What are you skeptical about?