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#6090634 - 12/18/15 08:16 AM Another long range shot ethics question
Korean Redneck Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 2275
Loc: Houston
Seems like there is quite a bit of debate on this topic. So here something I just thought about and wondering...

I hear all the time about bullet performance for game. Things about this expansion, that retention at such and such distances. Let's say in this scenario you happen to have your favorite 308 loaded with a bullet that is theoretically at it's best game performance (whatever that may mean to you) at distances of 400-600yards for a 308 based on typical muzzle velocities. Meaning at closer the expansion characteristics as not near as good because of high velocities and risk over penetration (clean through and through).

Is it "more ethical"
A) taking a 400-450yard shot within the sweet spot of the bullet knowing, obviously, you are more likely to not be as precise. OR
B) taking a shorter 150ish yard shot and risking over penetration.

I generally go for neck shots, but in this case I'd say it doesn't matter the wuss the question is still the same for any target spot.

And go!

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#6090641 - 12/18/15 08:22 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Im gonna say no.

I also feel that most non bonded core/guilding metal/partitioned bullets probably have better performance at further ranges and reduced velocities than they do at the point blank impact of what I would assume is where the majority of deer are shot.
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#6090650 - 12/18/15 08:28 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
No.

A full metal jacket will kill if put in the right place. The closer shot is the more ethical shot. A couple tenth Mil shooter error at 150 yards is less significant than the same error at 400. Little to no wind error at 150.
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#6090728 - 12/18/15 09:12 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
Brother in-law Offline
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Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 24467
B

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#6090744 - 12/18/15 09:20 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
RiverRider Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6204
Loc: Wise Co.
I'd say its not so simple. At higher impact velocities you can have greater expansion which tends to diminish penetration. Besides, what is "over-penetration?" IMO, an exit is desirable.
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#6090765 - 12/18/15 09:29 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
Dien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 389
Loc: Grand Prairie
AR10, 10 shots FMJ at 100 yards and it's going down!

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#6090796 - 12/18/15 09:47 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
caddokiller Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 5414
Loc: midlothian texas
This ranks right up there with the whole 270 vs. 30.06 argument. Its a waste of time. What is ethical to you may not be ethical to me. Does that make either of us right or wrong? No! Just pick a good bullet, practice shooting at the distances you are going to shoot and pull the trigger when the time comes. We are all going to miss and/or wound game at some point of our life. Can happen at 75 yards or 575 yards.

What is more ethical shooting a deer at 300 yards with a 270 vs shooting one with a bow at 10 yards? How bout at 800 yards with a 338 lapua vs a crossbow at 20 yards? Just learn how to put your shot where you want it and know YOUR limitations with the weapon in your hands. Different for everybody.
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#6090820 - 12/18/15 10:02 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
Sneaky Offline
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
I would recommend a different bullet if you trust it at 500 yards and not 150, especially in a mild cartridge like the .308.
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#6090823 - 12/18/15 10:04 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
swmays Online   content
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Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 5771
Loc: Dallas / Hopkins Co.
I say a well placed shot is better than a poorly placed shot. Regardless the distance.

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#6090830 - 12/18/15 10:08 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9398
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Actually, your penetration will INCREASE at the slower speeds (or further distance). At the higher speeds, the bullet will upset, expand and fragment more, causing more surface area to slow the bullet down quicker. The slower speeds reduces the bullet expansion with lower surface area to slow it down in soft tissue, resulting in greater penetration.
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#6090833 - 12/18/15 10:09 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9398
Loc: Lewisville, TX
This is the issue with your big magnums pushing a lighter weight bullet and bullet impact speeds at 3000+ fps at close ranges.
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#6090854 - 12/18/15 10:26 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Sneaky]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
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Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19246
Loc: Corsicana
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
I would recommend a different bullet if you trust it at 500 yards and not 150, especially in a mild cartridge like the .308.


This.
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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6090932 - 12/18/15 11:17 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: ChadTRG42]
BigPig Online   content
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Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9487
Loc: Forney, Tx
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
This is the issue with your big magnums pushing a lighter weight bullet and bullet impact speeds at 3000+ fps at close ranges.


So going off this, but not shooting a magnum, but instead a 270win with 130gr Hornady Superformance SST. I haven't had the desired results with this round. Yes it's a tight shooting round, which is great on paper, but the results on animals has been subpar. 1 deer last year at 80-90 yards took a shoulder shot with no exit, a coyote last year at 150-160 yards took a shoulder shot with no exit. I had to track the deer for quite a ways, the coyote dropped where he stood. Is this a case of a round thats designed for longer distance being used too close?
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#6090942 - 12/18/15 11:19 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: Korean Redneck]
TexFlip Offline
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Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 8633
Loc: Harris County
I know my limits and that's good enough for ne, you know, ethically speaking.
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#6090961 - 12/18/15 11:31 AM Re: Another long range shot ethics question [Re: BigPig]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: BigPig
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
This is the issue with your big magnums pushing a lighter weight bullet and bullet impact speeds at 3000+ fps at close ranges.


So going off this, but not shooting a magnum, but instead a 270win with 130gr Hornady Superformance SST. I haven't had the desired results with this round. Yes it's a tight shooting round, which is great on paper, but the results on animals has been subpar. 1 deer last year at 80-90 yards took a shoulder shot with no exit, a coyote last year at 150-160 yards took a shoulder shot with no exit. I had to track the deer for quite a ways, the coyote dropped where he stood. Is this a case of a round thats designed for longer distance being used too close?


I have had hornady interlocks come apart and not exit with frequency. I believe the SST is a similar bullet other than it is tipped.
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