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Remington R25 guys need some scoop #6081778 12/13/15 10:44 PM
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Have a buddy who had tricked out R25 with Nightforce 5.5-20 NXS on it. Struggling to make it shoot. Gave it to me to try and tweak it. Can get about 1.5 inch groups with 180g ammo. Has to be better than this. Using factory now bu will eventually build him some. Anybody have ammo suggestion for this gun. Scope mount and ring mount done and torqued to spec. 5k rifle that I can outshoot with my 10/22 doesnt seem right.........thanks in advance

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081840 12/13/15 11:18 PM
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Personally I would sell it and go for a different brand. If he truly has $5k in it that might not be possible but Im failing to see where the $5k is. There are much better semi-auto 308s for that kind of $. For that much you could get into a Larue, JP, LWRC.

Have you guys tried 168 or 175 FGMM? Almost every 308 on the planet can shoot those accurately.

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081844 12/13/15 11:21 PM
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BTW, Larue is literally around the corner from you guys. For $5k why on earth would he have bought a Remington????

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081867 12/13/15 11:30 PM
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His gun. Scope is 3K. Rifle was 1k. Cerakote job upgrade hand guard upgrade grip ace stock Pmags = 5K. He is from Houston. I'm just the slappie trying to make it shoot. Understand people have different opinions on the guns. Hunting rig haven't used match ammo

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081898 12/13/15 11:43 PM
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Ok that makes sense. So he's getting subpar accuracy out of a $1k rifle then. I dont count optics or paint jobs when i value a firearm

I would start with match ammo, FGMM or something from Chad. That would at least rule out one variable.

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081921 12/13/15 11:57 PM
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I have the same rifle with a Vortex Viper HST on top in a Burris PEPR mount and it would only shoot most factory loads to about 1.5MOA I tried 150 Core Lokts and Chad's 168gr AMAX loads and both shot about the same. I tried SSA 175gr match and it was just barely sub-moa. I then took it a step further with 165gr Nosler BT, 44gr Varget, and Lapua brass and it came alive to about 5/8" at 100 and 3" at 375. I also polished my trigger and it went from a gritty 5.5 lbs down to 3.5 lbs and smooth. You might look at doing something like that or get something like the RRA NM 2 stage or a Geissele to help with accuracy. Good luck and let us know how it shoots!


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6081923 12/13/15 11:58 PM
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Chad's 165 Sierra Game Kings are phenomenal...

R25 never was a match rifle, it was a hunting rifle.

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6082049 12/14/15 12:59 AM
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It needs a hand load.

As much as we tune every little detail on a hand load, and test very small increments of powder charge, it amazes me a rifle will shoot any mass produced ammo even 1 MOA.


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6082279 12/14/15 02:46 AM
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I can hand load. Do for all my bolts. Its a 1 in 10 twist and I have some 165g Swift sciroccos that are nails in my bolts. Maybe I'll load an array of those this week. Best factory was...wait for it..Ted Nugent ammo with the 180 barnes. We wasted a lot of time on 6 different factory loads

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6083027 12/14/15 03:56 PM
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Somethings wrong with that gun..I get those groups with cheap ZQI Turkish ammo from Walmart out of my R25.Never heard of an R25 that couldn't shoot at least 1 MOA at 100 yards with standard ammo.Have you cleaned the barrel.Have somebody else shoot it as well.( not saying you can't shoot).. Anyway,good luck.


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6083175 12/14/15 05:22 PM
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All rounds out of a lead sled. Takes me out of the equation

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6083826 12/14/15 10:45 PM
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I have several stock DPMS AR10s and all will shoot MOA consistently with factory and Chad's bulk reloads, your buddy's might be a bad one or perhaps the barrel is not torqued properly or hand guard is interfering. How did the rifle shoot before the ceracote job? I assume it was disassembled for the ceracote job and reassembled after, is that correct?


Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
I was wrong...on anything technical.

Originally Posted by Sailor
Fitz............. is right, ya know............
Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6083855 12/14/15 10:57 PM
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A couple of things.

First, I don't recommend the lead sled. It changes up the recoil from sled to the shoulder. Never been a fan. There are 3 recoil impulses with a gas gun- initial shot, recoil from bullet, and cycling of the action. You have to DRIVE an AR-10 hard, and hold on to it very stout. Also, AR's are known for first shot's going high, the next rounds shooting into a nice group, and another point of impact (POI) shift with the last round that locks the bolt open to the rear. Whenever I test for groups with an AR, I discount the first round location until I know EXACTLY where it normally goes. Next, if I am testing with 5 round groups, I will have a six round (first round into the mag to be the last round chambered) loaded in the mag so the next round chambers, and I don't get any POI shift from the bolt staying to the rear.

Second- When you paint an AR, you need to make sure parts and pieces get put back without slop in the receiver. Make sure there is not any gaps in the rear between the lower and upper. Any slop can cause movement. Paint does have some thickness to it, and has been known to change up how parts mate back.

Third- Try bullets that will tolerate a jump, like tangent ogive bullets. The Swift Scirroco you are looking at is a great bullet, but would be one of the last bullets I would try in an AR. You are limited to 2.800" to fit in the magazine, and this bullet would need to be seated deep with a long jump to the lands. It is an aggressive secant hunting bullet, and is jump sensitive.

Fourth- what powders are you running? I tend to go with faster burning powders in a gas gun. Varget is a great 308 powder, but may not be the best in a shorter barrel gas gun. Also, what is your process for brass prep for the ammo you are shooting?


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: ChadTRG42] #6083987 12/15/15 12:08 AM
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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6084197 12/15/15 01:54 AM
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Broke down gun tonight scrubbed it, tickled it loved it. Took scope off. Re mounted and re leveled it torqued up proper. Using varget. Brass prep is once fired RP brass tumbled. Run through full length sizing die, primer pockets cleaned and resized. re tumbled and brush necks Trimmed to 2.005. Debur and chamfer. Brush again. Load.

I have some Sierra 165 GKs I'm going to load up tonight for another go at it

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6084204 12/15/15 01:56 AM
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Fitz. I never shot it prior to the cerakote job so no knowledge of that. But I think he had that done shortly after he got it and before shooting it but not sure

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6086317 12/16/15 02:11 AM
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Interested in hearing what you determine.

Chad, thanks for the info on your process for firing groups with an AR, muy goodo!


Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
I was wrong...on anything technical.

Originally Posted by Sailor
Fitz............. is right, ya know............
Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6086385 12/16/15 02:38 AM
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Range time today. Didnt group the SGK's very well. But good news was I found a good spot with 180g Barnes TSX over 43g of Varget. Last 3 shot group at .823. This was major progress. I also discovered on the high dollar scope that the windage dial screw was a little loose and instead of clicking was moving more like the paralax adj. I am quite sure that was causing some hiccups. Now just need to keep tweaking a bit and think its back on my buddy to make it work. I did all the test firing off bags and not sled this time........

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: ChadTRG42] #6086579 12/16/15 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

Also, AR's are known for first shot's going high, the next rounds shooting into a nice group


Chad, can you expand on this? I experienced this the last time I shot mine where the first one was a half inch high and the second two were touching. I'm with you on the last bullet with the bolt locking to the rear, but it's not making sense to me why the first shot would be any different.

Scott


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Scooterb] #6086647 12/16/15 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: Scooterb
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

Also, AR's are known for first shot's going high, the next rounds shooting into a nice group


Chad, can you expand on this? I experienced this the last time I shot mine where the first one was a half inch high and the second two were touching. I'm with you on the last bullet with the bolt locking to the rear, but it's not making sense to me why the first shot would be any different.

Scott


Buffer spring set from sitting in storage
Bolt lockup not the same as one from a fired round versus one that was first loaded from a mag
Receiver tension with barrel
Cold/Warm heat now present on receiver or barrel
Copper wash now present in bore from first round fired
Dirty/Clean bore

Chad will probably add or subtract from the list smile

Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6086676 12/16/15 06:11 AM
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My buddies likes 46gr varget, hornady match brass and 155 gr sierra palma loaded to mag length. Shoots 3 shot sub moa all day.

Fwiw, the r25 is a good gun, but not a consistent sub moa. If he is willing to pull barrel and jump into a woa, blk hole, krieger, etc he could get very great accuracy 1/2 moa. He can probably get 200ish on his current barrel. Thats what i would do. 90% of accuracy starts with the barrel.


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Scooterb] #6087308 12/16/15 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Scooterb
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42

Also, AR's are known for first shot's going high, the next rounds shooting into a nice group


Chad, can you expand on this? I experienced this the last time I shot mine where the first one was a half inch high and the second two were touching. I'm with you on the last bullet with the bolt locking to the rear, but it's not making sense to me why the first shot would be any different.

Scott


Can I explain why, maybe. It's just something that I have seen as a trend with some AR's. Most of the time the first round is loaded by inserting the mag (with the bolt locked to the rear) and releasing the bolt to chamber the round. This process is different than when chambering during firing. Why, specifically, do a lot of AR's do this, I don't know (I know ammo well, but not the finite detail workings of an AR). But the name of the game for accuracy is consistency. Consistency for the ammo from round to round, same procedure from shot to shot, and same shooting position to shooting position. Group shooting can be a challenge. You have to eliminate the variables that cause groups to open up. With an AR, these variables can be the first shots going high and the last round locking the bolt to the rear. These shots can open up a group, so I discount the first round location if I am shooting an AR that does this. I will make note in my shooting log the first round, and pay attention to the main 4-5 shot group.


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Re: Remington R25 guys need some scoop [Re: Murphscout] #6088269 12/17/15 01:01 AM
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Another thing to check on the rifle is the feed ramps. My DPMS LR-260H had razor sharp feed ramps on the barrel extension. It would cut grooves in each bullet loaded into the chamber,and cause flyers.
I take a piece of Emory cloth,and sand down any sharp/rough/edges on all of my AR feed ramps,and that will solve getting flyers from the bullets getting damaged going into the chamber.

I've never noticed any POI changes between the first and last round in my DPMS. My RRA AR-15 does that sometimes with different bullets/loads,but most shoot the same POI.

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