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A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes #6070179 12/07/15 03:19 AM
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A little lengthy but worth the time.

Spoiler Alert - No one knows for sure.

http://www.outdoorweekend.net/Articles-i...ntler_size.html


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6070188 12/07/15 03:27 AM
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We will not shoot spikes unless they are 3yr old seen to many turn into good bucks.

Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6070306 12/07/15 05:17 AM
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Great Article I had a bunch of spikes this year that were two. No one on our ranch shoots them not even the kids. With that being said I can only remember one time that I saw a/ spike that may have been three. After that do they have a cull rack or turn into typical. No way of knowing for sure


Big Beckett!!
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071484 12/07/15 09:39 PM
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Generally it is not good to shoot pikes unless it is their 3rd set of antlers.. At that point they will most likely not become anything worth wile antler wise.


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071496 12/07/15 09:52 PM
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http://www.outdoorweekend.net/Articles-i...ntler_size.html

"Likewise, in the flatwood country of northwestern Florida, Steve Shea and his coworkers found that 78 percent of the yearling bucks grew spike antlers less than 5 inches long. Despite a 75 percent decline in deer numbers, body and antler size among yearlings did not improve because of the low-quality forage growing on the infertile soil."

Lol, Keep shooting boys!!!!!

Now let's look at our tag numbers and look at out deer numbers and ratios. Now what's the biggest impact We can have on our deer, via the trigger....


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6071503 12/07/15 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Now what's the biggest impact We can have on our deer, via the trigger....


Alteration of herd size is the biggest impact.


[Linked Image]

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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6071507 12/07/15 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown

http://www.outdoorweekend.net/Articles-i...ntler_size.html

"Likewise, in the flatwood country of northwestern Florida, Steve Shea and his coworkers found that 78 percent of the yearling bucks grew spike antlers less than 5 inches long. Despite a 75 percent decline in deer numbers, body and antler size among yearlings did not improve because of the low-quality forage growing on the infertile soil."

Lol, Keep shooting boys!!!!!

Now let's look at our tag numbers and look at out deer numbers and ratios. Now what's the biggest impact We can have on our deer, via the trigger....


Not pulling it for $200, Alex.

Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #6071518 12/07/15 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Now what's the biggest impact We can have on our deer, via the trigger....


Alteration of herd size is the biggest impact.



cheers Bing Bing...

The whole spike debate really is irrelevant for 98% of us. The resources just aren't there to have an impact. Best to use those doe tags in the majority of TX(excluding very low density areas)


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071520 12/07/15 10:06 PM
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I wont try to shoot every spike I see, but I will shot every spike I can that is on its second set of antlers and is still a spike!


It's hell eatin em live
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071527 12/07/15 10:09 PM
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I have one this year that qualifies spike as an 8yo...he is going to get ground checked so there's a chance I have 20yrs of deer on the ground with 2 tags.

Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071534 12/07/15 10:11 PM
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If you have the #'s, I wouldn't wait for the 3rd set of antlers to shoot a spike or any deer less than 8 points unless you enjoy shooting mature bucks with 8 points or less. If you have low densities, I can see experimenting with this practice. We kill everything less than an 8 point at 3.5 and some deer such as spikes at 2.5, never shooting anything bigger than an 8 point until they're at least 5.5 and depending on size and score will leave the 5.5's to 6.5, 7.5, etc... It's not foolproof, but you do notice a difference if you can stick with that program for the same period of said age. Again, range, deer densities, ratios, etc... would have a say in this practice.


How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6071983 12/08/15 02:00 AM
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This may seem like an idiotic example but I've always considered culling spikes like drafting and NBA team when the players are in kindergarten.

Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6072060 12/08/15 02:35 AM
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When its time ta gather some freezer meat, and a tag is left... Doe/spike??? either one will wake the team.


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6072926 12/08/15 04:31 PM
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I found this article while searching for information that might support my approach in taking spikes that don't match up with their second year peers. It would appear to be common sense that all deer in the area where you hunt have access to the same amount and types of browse. If so, it would seem that genetics would be the major difference in antler development, making differences in antler appearance a good way to identify inferior spikes from other bucks of the same age.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6072936 12/08/15 04:33 PM
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Genetics and diet play a very important role. As does birth date of said spike.

Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6072987 12/08/15 05:08 PM
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I have shared this photo several times before, but feel it provides a great example of what you want to protect in your second year buck. The small shed is shown with the rack of a mature buck, only to give perspective as to its small size.



As a comparison, here's a photo of a spike that I took last season, which also looks very similar to one that I took this past weekend. In fact, both spikes were taken a year apart in the same food plot. While I am no wildlife biologist for sure, I don't believe anyone need be to recognize the genetic differences in these same age deer.



Granted, very few spikes will fail to develop forked antlers in later years. The key is identifying poor genetics earlier, rather than later, when AR's will protect them from harvest.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6073023 12/08/15 05:28 PM
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If you believe that rack size has a genetic component, then why would you NOT want to take even 1.5 YO spike bucks? For that matter, if you could harvest the bottom half of your yearlings, regardless of number of points, why would you not want to?


Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6073116 12/08/15 06:16 PM
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its relative to your deer herd and your management intensity. if you have low deer density then I would not shoot spikes unless of course they are old spikes, which you do not ever see many or any of. in this instance you are wanting to protect your deer numbers and only shoot larger mature individuals.

if you have HF or intense management and lots of deer density and you are needing to remove numbers. then its just a numbers game. 1.5-2.5yr old spikes are not big deer and they will almost always get bigger to a varying extent. but when culling buck density I'd rather shoot some of the spikes than I would young branch antlered deer. and for someone playing a numbers game you will not be able to remove enough mature age animals to meet your densities.

you want to maintain the best of your middle and upper age structure deer. need some young ones of course too.

we will shoot the spikes. not all of them. but some. any spike that looks to be at least 1.5-2.5 with slick spikes longer than his ears, not making much or any attempt to fork. we will shoot some of these deer.


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Erich] #6073203 12/08/15 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Erich
we will shoot the spikes. not all of them. but some. any spike that looks to be at least 1.5-2.5 with slick spikes longer than his ears, not making much or any attempt to fork. we will shoot some of these deer.


Yes, a "as long or longer than their ears" rule would seem to protect those bucks that were simply born later than their peers.

IMO, the focus on deer density has been the most overused and misused factor in deer management in low fence environments. No question, it was the QDM crowd that once pushed this agenda hard, causing deer numbers to take a nose dive in areas where overpopulation never existed in the first place. While overpopulation is often a concern in areas with harsh winters, areas in warmer climates can safely support much greater deer densities. Still, many jumped on the bandwagon and began whacking every doe they saw, seeing it as the magic bullet in growing trophies.

IMO, hunting and fishing are much alike from a sporting perspective. Every time most people go fishing, they want to get bites. And every time they go hunting, they want to at least see a deer.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6073327 12/08/15 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: Erich
we will shoot the spikes. not all of them. but some. any spike that looks to be at least 1.5-2.5 with slick spikes longer than his ears, not making much or any attempt to fork. we will shoot some of these deer.


Yes, a "as long or longer than their ears" rule would seem to protect those bucks that were simply born later than their peers.

IMO, the focus on deer density has been the most overused and misused factor in deer management in low fence environments. No question, it was the QDM crowd that once pushed this agenda hard, causing deer numbers to take a nose dive in areas where overpopulation never existed in the first place. While overpopulation is often a concern in areas with harsh winters, areas in warmer climates can safely support much greater deer densities. Still, many jumped on the bandwagon and began whacking every doe they saw, seeing it as the magic bullet in growing trophies.

IMO, hunting and fishing are much alike from a sporting perspective. Every time most people go fishing, they want to get bites. And every time they go hunting, they want to at least see a deer.


We hunted on a 700 +/- acre lease in Kendall Co. When we started hunting it the deer numbers were hi. I would see over 30 deer a sit on most hunts and the biggest bucks we shot were 8 points around 100 b&c, the property had been owned by the same people and managed or not managed the same way for over 80 years.

We started using the tags on our licens to remove does. A few of us filled our 5 tags a year with does for a few years running. We did change the numbers and went from seeing nearly 40 deer a hunt to 10 or so. In the first year after we saw for the first time in the 20 years that we leased the place a deer with a typical rack with more than 8 points. The following year we saw several young tens. We have our own hunting property and gave up the lease to some family members, but they have shot deer every year since that were unheard of for the area and for the property for 100 years of history.

Supporting deer and supporting them to be the best that they can be are completely different. I wouldn't urge people in low density areas to shoot deer to reduce numbers, but if your in one of the many areas that is over run with deer its a good idea. We also noted that dressed weight of does and bucks climbed about 15 pounds for does and 30 for bucks over the time period.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: redchevy] #6073400 12/08/15 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Supporting deer and supporting them to be the best that they can be are completely different. I wouldn't urge people in low density areas to shoot deer to reduce numbers, but if your in one of the many areas that is over run with deer its a good idea. We also noted that dressed weight of does and bucks climbed about 15 pounds for does and 30 for bucks over the time period.


Agreed. Still, "being run over with deer" is a relative term that can defined differently by different people.

IMO, mistakes are made when hunters believe that what's being done in one area must be right for them as well. Or even worse, they feel that more is even better and sure to yield even better results. No question, there are some hunters who hunt in low deer density areas who truly believe that if they kill more doe, their bucks will get bigger. It's no different than those who believe more feeders will do the same, without regard to weather and habitat.

As some have said, "just don't overthink it." When you start seeing more doe than usual, start taking them. And likewise, hold back when you don't. The same is true for spikes and lesser bucks, no matter what other hunters are doing in their neck of the woods.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6073434 12/08/15 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
I have shared this photo several times before, but feel it provides a great example of what you want to protect in your second year buck. The small shed is shown with the rack of a mature buck, only to give perspective as to its small size.



As a comparison, here's a photo of a spike that I took last season, which also looks very similar to one that I took this past weekend. In fact, both spikes were taken a year apart in the same food plot. While I am no wildlife biologist for sure, I don't believe anyone need be to recognize the genetic differences in these same age deer.



Granted, very few spikes will fail to develop forked antlers in later years. The key is identifying poor genetics earlier, rather than later, when AR's will protect them from harvest.


How do you know that 10pt wasn't a spike


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: Texas Dan] #6073545 12/08/15 10:24 PM
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I think his point was these were deer of the same age, from the same place, showing how much genetics influences antler size.


Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: postoak] #6073574 12/08/15 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: postoak
I think his point was these were deer of the same age, from the same place, showing how much genetics influences antler size.


Exactly.

If you were to compare the total antler mass of the shed with that of one side of the spike, they would probably be relatively equal. That would seem to indicate the two deer consumed relatively equal amounts of browse during antler development. Therefore, the genetic difference is how the two are much different in structure and form.


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Re: A good read on what the evidence suggests on shooting spikes [Re: TXGH] #6073856 12/09/15 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: jtprocaddie
Generally it is not good to shoot pikes unless it is their 3rd set of antlers.. At that point they will most likely not become anything worth wile antler wise.

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