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Short, Heavy 308 #6068569 12/06/15 12:50 AM
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charlesb Offline OP
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Lately I've been fascinated with an idea, a rifle with a short (18") bull barrel.

Nothing 'tactical", I'm thinking of a sporting rifle, hopefully even good-looking.

In my imagination, it would handle well, be good in the brush, but also be accurate enough for longer shots, out to 300 yards at the most with a .308 and 165 grain spitzers.

A compact 2-7 scope slammed down to almost touch the barrel, a sporting stock with the barrel channel opened up...

I know that there are a few short bull-barreled 308's on the market, and hope to hear from owners, get their impressions on how they behave, and also any building advice.

My idea is to buy a regular .308 bull-barrel rifle and cut the barrel down. There may be a better way to go.

Any information on this while I am still in the planning stage would be greatly appreciated.


Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068593 12/06/15 01:05 AM
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I have a Rem 700 AAC SD 308 with 16.5 barrel. Shoots lights out with 165 or 175

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068606 12/06/15 01:09 AM
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I have a Mossberg MVP in 308, heavy barrel fluted, adjustable trigger, box mag (5, 10, 20 round), bolt action.
Looks like the Ruger Gunsite but not the expensive. I like it. Haven't tried to stretch it out pass 200. It is already 18".

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068632 12/06/15 01:25 AM
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So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder...

F-ing really? loco


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Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068639 12/06/15 01:32 AM
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I bought the Savage 10FCP-SR. It has a 20" threaded heavy barrel. It has the accustock and trigger. It's an awesome rifle right out of the box.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068674 12/06/15 01:49 AM
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JR,

How does it feed with the plastic mag? I've been thinking of getting one. I have a Precision carbine in 223 and a lightweight stainless in 308. Both are incredibly accurate with almost any load right out of the box.



Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: J.G.] #6068690 12/06/15 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder...

F-ing really? loco

Beat me to it.


Originally Posted by unclebubba
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: scottfromdallas] #6068706 12/06/15 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: scottfromdallas
JR,

How does it feed with the plastic mag? I've been thinking of getting one. I have a Precision carbine in 223 and a lightweight stainless in 308. Both are incredibly accurate with almost any load right out of the box.


I don't use the 10 round that came with it. I purchased the 5 round mags from midwayusa. I have not had any issues

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: J.G.] #6068711 12/06/15 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder...

F-ing really? loco


Was waiting on it.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068713 12/06/15 02:11 AM
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Yet his website only lists a few basic, general services. Rifle builder...I doubt it. Can't even crown a .30 cal barrel in his "shop".

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: J.G.] #6068749 12/06/15 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder...

F-ing really? loco


Has his little girly panties in a twist.

Sober up, JG... Take the ignorant attitude somewhere else.


Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 02:33 AM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068751 12/06/15 02:27 AM
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Love my 20" SS Remington 308 dubbed as a LTR. Believe it or not in 2009 Remmy made a special run of 100 and here is one of them. Short bbl rifles make perfect stand guns.


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Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: Dalee7892] #6068755 12/06/15 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dalee7892
I have a Mossberg MVP in 308, heavy barrel fluted, adjustable trigger, box mag (5, 10, 20 round), bolt action.
Looks like the Ruger Gunsite but not the expensive. I like it. Haven't tried to stretch it out pass 200. It is already 18".


I'm thinking about handling qualities, have you been happy with the way it feels at the shoulder?

One theory I've developed is that the short, heavy barrel should be good for coming up fast, and then holding steady. - Does it feel that way to you?

Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 02:33 AM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068770 12/06/15 02:35 AM
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Honestly, you'd have gotten a much more pleasant and informative response if you hadn't chosen to be a complete jerk on that LR chat.

May I suggest a higher fiber diet?


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068775 12/06/15 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: charlesb
ignorant attitude


I don't claim to be a rifle builder, bash competent shooters, then ask questions on the THF I should already know the answer to, being a rifle builder.

Who's ignorant?

loco


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Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068909 12/06/15 04:09 AM
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You better go to a 338 federal or another larger bore. They are more efficient in a short barrel according to you. 300 yards with that short of a barrel is getting unsportsmanlike.
Quote from you on another thread. cartridges tend to the neighborhood of 100-150 fps per inch. This chart claims that eight. Are you sure you can't deal with all that velocity loss? (Velocity loss is not correct. Just quoting him)

Last edited by bo323; 12/06/15 04:32 AM.
Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068943 12/06/15 04:41 AM
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Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.

Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.


Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6068957 12/06/15 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: charlesb

Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.

Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.



Ok. So how effective will it be if you lose 300fps from a 20 in barrel or 900fps from a 24 in barrel or 12fps from a 26 in barrel? Again using your numbers.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6069018 12/06/15 06:02 AM
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If you want semi, after some initial frustration, my fnar with a bar stock is shooting consistently sub .75" 5 shot groups at 100yds. Its got a 20" barrel and im now very pleased. Havent done any LR grouping because it was very persnickity at the onset. Im guessing chrome lined barrel had something to do with it.


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Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6069111 12/06/15 01:13 PM
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The FNAR's are nice, one of the very best but I am looking to use a bolt gun for this.

I already know what hardware I intend to start with, either a Howa barreled action, or a Weatherby Vanguard with the heavy barrel if I can find a used one that is priced right. The main difference between the two is that the Vanguard metal will be finished differently from the Howa, and the Vanguard will come with a plastic stock that I will proceed to remove and replace.

I am uncertain about the scope, I know that I want a 2-7 compact variable but have not decided between Leupold and Ziess.

Here I am asking for comments about the handling qualities of short bull barrels in the field, more than anything, and the kind of stock designs that seems to work out best with them. - I may step away from the thumb-hole stocks that I generally prefer, this time around.

One issue is that I will either have to do a good deal of whittling to lighten up a Varmint stock - or open up the barrel channel on a Sporter stock. I much prefer Varmint stocks for shooting at the range of course, but the same features that make a Varmint stock great for firing prone and from the bench would make one too heavy and ponderous for lugging around in the field. - I'm a fair chase hunter, so camping out in a blind in front of a feeder is not on the itinerary here. I have camped out in blinds in the past, and it's a good way to get the venison, but I find it more enjoyable these days to be on the hoof, moving around seeing the country in the sometimes forlorn hope of outwitting the game in its own element.

My theory, still untested is that a short bull barrel should be great for running shots and impromptu shots that often have to be taken without the benefit of a support or stick. As we all know though, reality does not always cooperate with theory. I'd like to hear experiences from hunters who have stalked either game or varmints with short bull barreled rifles.

How does it work out in the field?

Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 01:25 PM.

Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6069119 12/06/15 01:29 PM
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Man, some people just dig themselves deeper and deeper. Running shots, impromptu shots, no rests... Seems like that would increase the likely hood of a wounded animal to a figure greater than "as low as humanly possible"


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6069176 12/06/15 02:45 PM
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Check out the Remington SPS, barrel is 20" so it may be longer than what your looking for. Its short accurate and a nail driver, it makes a great blind gun.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: TFF Caribou] #6069197 12/06/15 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Man, some people just dig themselves deeper and deeper. Running shots, impromptu shots, no rests... Seems like that would increase the likely hood of a wounded animal to a figure greater than "as low as humanly possible"

Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.

Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.

I just wanted to go ahead and answer that for him with his standard response for anyone questioning the master gunsmith.

Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: charlesb] #6069203 12/06/15 03:08 PM
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so a running shot is more "sportsmanlike" than a LR shot?


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Re: Short, Heavy 308 [Re: poisonivie] #6069241 12/06/15 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: poisonivie
so a running shot is more "sportsmanlike" than a LR shot?


Yes, by a wide margin.


Kind regards, charlesb


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