Forums46
Topics538,031
Posts9,732,153
Members87,055
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
#6064222
12/03/15 02:15 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I grew up deer hunting. When I was a kid, getting a buck, any buck, was the goal of every kid who hunted. It was usually a dink.
Thanks to an ever-increasing focus and awareness of proper deer management, more and better deer are available to all of us across the board. Things are so much better now without doubt. And I am grateful for it. I manage my own place as best I know how and have learned a lot from the guys on here. It has helped me a bunch.
But I wonder, have we reached a point where the focus on management has overtaken actually learning to hunt?
If so, are we moving away from what hunting is really about - hunting?
I know lots and lots of guys who can lecture chapter and verse on deer management principles (deer aging, scoring, buck to doe ratios, best foods for spring/winter, protein sources, culling, etc., etc., etc.) who have never set foot outside of a box blind when hunting. To me, there's something wrong with that picture. There are 50 threads on management techniques for every thread on hunting techniques/skills. It seems to me that a true appreciation of the deer we hunt involves so much more than their size, numbers, and foodplot/corn/protein preferences.
Are we losing something? Is the balance of management vs. hunting shifting too far towards the management side? Or am I just an old fart behind the times?
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064247
12/03/15 02:28 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034 |
I think so, but it wouldn't become that evident until, say if SHTF, many will find they lack true hunting skills. I remember when most people hunted trails , or fields sitting behind a log, or up against a tree. I don't recall deer feeders and blinds much back then (60's-70's)
On the flip side, the way hunting is now, what skills do you have to have?
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064248
12/03/15 02:30 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,658
Dustnsand
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,658 |
Same thing as the HF thread. Different strokes for different folks. Some people are probably worried to much about it but they don't affect me so I don't care what they do.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064249
12/03/15 02:31 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034 |
Another thought NP, since hunting has become so commercialized and drastically changed over the last 30 years, us "older" guy's should feel fortunate to have seen it "the other way". PArt of the trade off I guess, bigger bucks and opportunity for easier hunting?? IDK
I do know I really enjoy seeing old hunting photos, you know, back when a deer draped over the hood drew every one from town.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Western]
#6064253
12/03/15 02:33 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358
jshouse
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358 |
I think so, but it wouldn't become that evident until, say if SHTF, many will find they lack true hunting skills. I remember when most people hunted trails , or fields sitting behind a log, or up against a tree. I don't recall deer feeders and blinds much back then (60's-70's)
On the flip side, the way hunting is now, what skills do you have to have? have you ever bow hunted?
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064257
12/03/15 02:34 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549 |
I see what your saying.
I think the spot and stalk type hunting is more or less disappearing with smaller tracts being hunted and more hunters per acre on leases where they don't want folks wondering around. I have hunted public land spot and stalk for hogs, it was a whole different animal than sitting in a box blind. I hope to add a couple more of these types of hunts as time goes on.
It's hell eatin em live
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Dustnsand]
#6064266
12/03/15 02:37 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 447
RangerRick
Bird Dog
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 447 |
Some people are probably worried to much about it but they don't affect me so I don't care what they do. you "cared enough" to post .... NP, I been hunting since 1974(I was a kid with a Ben Pearson Longbow -w- 3 Kmart Broadhead Arrows of some sort and a old H&R single 20 gauge Slugs and #3 Buck) and it sure has changed and also has priced many a good ole boy right on out of nearly all of it. What remains is the sad amount of public land so very limited for many hunters and on such you almost have to hunt the old way if you follow the regulations! I enjoy both,but can only afford the latter these days. I had a lease for 11 years and in that time it quadrupled in price. I seen the AR regs work there,and I never seen such self centered attitudes ever as o that place the last couple years.
The way things should be are not often the way things are.....
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064270
12/03/15 02:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
TxAg
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811 |
NP, I am with you 100%, and I'm not quite an "old fart." I love management, and agree it has paid dividends. I enjoy it as much as I do the hunting. However, I continue to see a trend where TX hunting is defined by sitting in a comfy little box and waiting for a timed mechanical device to throw corn and for the deer to come to you. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it and enjoy it myself sometimes. But I can't help but feel much is being lost. It really came home to me when we started a new awesome lease and 90% of the discussion amongst the new members was around the status of the blinds rather than scouting, identifying trails, looking for likely areas, etc. Think about the wind? nah.
I'm only 35. However, hunting for me started out either sitting up in a live oak tree on a 2x6 and waiting to see what came down a trail or still-hunting through a likely area. I've also had the benefit of hunting out West a few times where hunting largely relies on your scouting ability, then using your glass and your legs. You better learn to play the wind and move with the landscape.
In the end, I don't know that it is management that is derailing the train. I think it is 1 part laziness, and another part not having to learn those critical skills because folks can largely be successful without them in this day and age.
Last edited by TxAg; 12/03/15 02:42 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064284
12/03/15 02:45 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
I grew up deer hunting. When I was a kid, getting a buck, any buck, was the goal of every kid who hunted. It was usually a dink.
Thanks to an ever-increasing focus and awareness of proper deer management, more and better deer are available to all of us across the board. Things are so much better now without doubt. And I am grateful for it. I manage my own place as best I know how and have learned a lot from the guys on here. It has helped me a bunch.
But I wonder, have we reached a point where the focus on management has overtaken actually learning to hunt?
If so, are we moving away from what hunting is really about - hunting?
I know lots and lots of guys who can lecture chapter and verse on deer management principles (deer aging, scoring, buck to doe ratios, best foods for spring/winter, protein sources, culling, etc., etc., etc.) who have never set foot outside of a box blind when hunting. To me, there's something wrong with that picture. There are 50 threads on management techniques for every thread on hunting techniques/skills. It seems to me that a true appreciation of the deer we hunt involves so much more than their size, numbers, and foodplot/corn/protein preferences.
Are we losing something? Is the balance of management vs. hunting shifting too far towards the management side? Or am I just an old fart behind the times? Humm pretty simple... Better understanding of the animals we hunt, And killing whitetails is simple, why we almost whipped them out. Whitetails don't migrate. They have a core area. We take a lot of short cuts but that's not a position of lack of skill it's a position on lack of time. I grew up in a place where a corn feeder was a waste of time. Why would a deer come to a corn feeder when there is 6k acres of standing corn around them...but it wasn't hard to pattern them and then figure out which feild they where calling home. I can drive a around a circle in 10 min and figure out which one has deer in it. On top of that it's easy to glass an Alafalfa feild.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064294
12/03/15 02:49 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
You hunt a much different area than where I do.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064295
12/03/15 02:49 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 447
RangerRick
Bird Dog
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 447 |
It amazes me that we have more deer than ever these days....but I used to see a lot more back in them olden days just cause we didn't just sit over "MY SPOT". I read in a old almanac many years ago that at turn of the 20th century there were est 50000 whitetail left in the US. Now we have over 20 Million? Still do not see the numbers.But then I hunt East Texas and not on a South Texas farm(nothing again them I have had fun on them when day leas was affordable).
The way things should be are not often the way things are.....
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: TxAg]
#6064303
12/03/15 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
NP, I am with you 100%, and I'm not quite an "old fart." I love management, and agree it has paid dividends. I enjoy it as much as I do the hunting. However, I continue to see a trend where TX hunting is defined by sitting in a comfy little box and waiting for a timed mechanical device to throw corn and for the deer to come to you. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it and enjoy it myself sometimes. But I can't help but feel much is being lost. It really came home to me when we started a new awesome lease and 90% of the discussion amongst the new members was around the status of the blinds rather than scouting, identifying trails, looking for likely areas, etc. Think about the wind? nah.
I'm only 35. However, hunting for me started out either sitting up in a live oak tree on a 2x6 and waiting to see what came down a trail or still-hunting through a likely area. I've also had the benefit of hunting out West a few times where hunting largely relies on your scouting ability, then using your glass and your legs. You better learn to play the wind and move with the landscape.
In the end, I don't know that it is management that is derailing the train. I think it is 1 part laziness, and another part not having to learn those critical skills because folks can largely be successful without them in this day and age. Good post thanks. That's what's rolling around in my head too. Especially nice to hear coming from a younger guy.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: jshouse]
#6064304
12/03/15 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034 |
I think so, but it wouldn't become that evident until, say if SHTF, many will find they lack true hunting skills. I remember when most people hunted trails , or fields sitting behind a log, or up against a tree. I don't recall deer feeders and blinds much back then (60's-70's)
On the flip side, the way hunting is now, what skills do you have to have? have you ever bow hunted? Yes sir, for around 15-20 years, but it has been some time
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064308
12/03/15 02:57 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,289
Creekrunner
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,289 |
Do we hunt for...ourselves? The deer? Or what other people think?
Some guys are balanced about it and do what they can to improve the herd, but don't lose sight of the fact that we're there to have a good time. Other folks are out to prove something, either because they have a need to be "respected" or whatever. I am related to and actually have a couple of friends I consider close friends that are of the latter type. They're the ones that the first cotton-pickin' words out of they're mouth when anyone brings a deer back to camp is "How old do you think that deer is?" And then there's this long, drawn out discussion like you're at a dadgum biology conference. No "Hey congratulations!" or "Pretty deer!". And I've seen this when a kid brings in his first buck ever. It infuriates me.
And then there's the envious redneck that always mumbles "I woudn'ta shot that deer." It could be 8 years old, a foot outside his ears, and 15 points.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064309
12/03/15 02:58 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
I agree times have changed, but it doesn't mean it should take the fun out of it. I still enjoy scoping our property for rub lines, scrapes, and general deer trail paths. Looking for deer forage, evaluating game pics, and trying to age deer is something that entertains me too.
I really do like my first year trying to manage the deer at our new west texas place, but I still old school it in east texas with a bow up in an oak tree while overlooking a deer trail or scrape.
It's all hunting and I enjoy it all
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064310
12/03/15 02:59 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
You hunt a much different area than where I do. Do I? My old ranch was north eastern Oklahoma. All soggy river bottom land. Find the pinch points kill the deer. Corn didn't work there either because of soybeans, wheat and white oaks. Growing up Oklahoma had a one week gun season... 3 month archery season... How do you think I hunted? In eastern Oklahoma a tree, still do to this day when I visit. I hunt hill country, and south Texas now with a little of my ranch in the panhandle. Only time you will see me in a blind is if my wife is with me or it's just flat nasty. Do I hunt using corn yes, I use it in draws and pinch points to slow down deer that I know are already there. They are whitetails they have core areas Again they are whitetails they have core areas define the core area kill the deer.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: titan2232]
#6064312
12/03/15 03:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
TxAg
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811 |
It's all hunting and I enjoy it all
That's probably the most important point to all of it! To each their own, and be thankful for the great hunting we have.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6064314
12/03/15 03:01 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Do we hunt for...ourselves? The deer? Or what other people think?
Some guys are balanced about it and do what they can to improve the herd, but don't lose sight of the fact that we're there to have a good time. Other folks are out to prove something, either because they have a need to be "respected" or whatever. I am related to and actually have a couple of friends I consider close friends that are of the latter type. They're the ones that the first cotton-pickin' words out of they're mouth when anyone brings a deer back to camp is "How old do you think that deer is?" And then there's this long, drawn out discussion like you're at a dadgum biology conference. No "Hey congratulations!" or "Pretty deer!". And I've seen this when a kid brings in his first buck ever. It infuriates me.
And then there's the envious redneck that always mumbles "I woudn'ta shot that deer." It could be 8 years old, a foot outside his ears, and 15 points. That's exactly what I'm getting at.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6064319
12/03/15 03:05 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034 |
You hunt a much different area than where I do. Do I? My old ranch was north eastern Oklahoma. All soggy river bottom land. Find the pinch points kill the deer. Corn didn't work there either because of soybeans, wheat and white oaks. Growing up Oklahoma had a one week gun season... 3 month archery season... How do you think I hunted? In eastern Oklahoma a tree, still do to this day when I visit. I hunt hill country, and south Texas now with a little of my ranch in the panhandle. Only time you will see me in a blind is if my wife is with me or it's just flat nasty. Do I hunt using corn yes, I use it in draws and pinch points to slow down deer that I know are already there. They are whitetails they have core areas Again they are whitetails they have core areas define the core area kill the deer. Truth, but when deer numbers where down and deer shot at on a regular basis, even chased when using dogs was legal, pattering a core area was not that easy all the time. It is a slightly different hunt than 30-40 years ago.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6064328
12/03/15 03:08 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
You hunt a much different area than where I do. Do I? My old ranch was north eastern Oklahoma. All soggy river bottom land. Find the pinch points kill the deer. Corn didn't work there either because of soybeans, wheat and white oaks. Growing up Oklahoma had a one week gun season... 3 month archery season... How do you think I hunted? In eastern Oklahoma a tree, still do to this day when I visit. I hunt hill country, and south Texas now with a little of my ranch in the panhandle. Only time you will see me in a blind is if my wife is with me or it's just flat nasty. Do I hunt using corn yes, I use it in draws and pinch points to slow down deer that I know are already there. They are whitetails they have core areas Again they are whitetails they have core areas define the core area kill the deer. Well, you are obviously much more accomplished hunter than me. I have rarely killed any "easy" deer - at least for me. I have TC pics of lots of nice bucks I never/rarely lay eyes on. You are one of the few I know who have the general feeling that killing mature deer is easy. I doubt I'll ever get there.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064330
12/03/15 03:09 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549 |
Watching the hunting shows on tv listening on here, you her feeding area, bedding area, pinch point etc thrown around.
I don't believe there is a set any of those on our property. Its comprised of native south texas brush with some mesquite thrown in. The only thing I can think of is the tank, but it doesn't draw near the animals you would think. The deer mozey through munching on this bush then that bush then bed and do the same the next day and wind up all over the place.
It's hell eatin em live
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: TxAg]
#6064331
12/03/15 03:10 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
OP
THF Celebrity
|
OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
It's all hunting and I enjoy it all
That's probably the most important point to all of it! To each their own, and be thankful for the great hunting we have. No doubt.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: titan2232]
#6064332
12/03/15 03:10 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
I agree times have changed, but it doesn't mean it should take the fun out of it. I still enjoy scoping our property for rub lines, scrapes, and general deer trail paths. Looking for deer forage, evaluating game pics, and trying to age deer is something that entertains me too.
I really do like my first year trying to manage the deer at our new west texas place, but I still old school it in east texas with a bow up in an oak tree while overlooking a deer trail or scrape.
It's all hunting and I enjoy it all
Have they though? Growing up I remember my grand father shooting every deer he saw. I remember him laying a stack of $20 on the table as a bounty. Just as easy to kill then then now, biggest difference is we just have a lot more now. Only mindset that has changed is they have value now, let's not try to while them out. Hunting is the same. Opportunity has increased.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064352
12/03/15 03:26 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
You hunt a much different area than where I do. Do I? My old ranch was north eastern Oklahoma. All soggy river bottom land. Find the pinch points kill the deer. Corn didn't work there either because of soybeans, wheat and white oaks. Growing up Oklahoma had a one week gun season... 3 month archery season... How do you think I hunted? In eastern Oklahoma a tree, still do to this day when I visit. I hunt hill country, and south Texas now with a little of my ranch in the panhandle. Only time you will see me in a blind is if my wife is with me or it's just flat nasty. Do I hunt using corn yes, I use it in draws and pinch points to slow down deer that I know are already there. They are whitetails they have core areas Again they are whitetails they have core areas define the core area kill the deer. Well, you are obviously much more accomplished hunter than me. I have rarely killed any "easy" deer - at least for me. I have TC pics of lots of nice bucks I never/rarely lay eyes on. You are one of the few I know who have the general feeling that killing mature deer is easy. I doubt I'll ever get there. Patronizing Is funny in it own way. You have light densities yet share pictures taken from a hand held camera of a great beautiful mature deer, then kill him and share with use. You put a first time Hunter on a magnificent mature deer that rivals the first deer taken by 99% of THFers. Id say you have it figured on how to take mature deer.
|
|
|
Re: Deer Management vs. Deer Hunting
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6064360
12/03/15 03:36 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,156
Phantom
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,156 |
I view them as different yet both equally valuable. I prefer to bow hunt however to keep the population in check I management hunt with a rifle. Times are changing but it is for the better. More deer, better quality, I enjoy all of it.
Good is the enemy of Great
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|