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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: caddokiller]
#6065985
12/04/15 12:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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I'm going to go to SWFA (<10 minutes away) tomorrow & compare the Bushy DMR next to the Burris XTR 2 & the PST as well. I know it won't be low light foggy sky @ dawn/dusk but I'll still get to play! Since your going to be there compare it to their super sniper 5-20x50 HD too. It doesn't have the bells and whistles that some of the others do but I bet you will find the glass is a whole site better and its more repeatable that the PST. Good luck with whatever you chose. Maybe you just got a bad one? Mine got dust inside the front lens some how. Sent it on a Tuesday, got it back on Monday. I agree, SS 5-20 is a much better scope, but that was out of his budget.
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: J.G.]
#6066027
12/04/15 01:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,427
caddokiller
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I'm going to go to SWFA (<10 minutes away) tomorrow & compare the Bushy DMR next to the Burris XTR 2 & the PST as well. I know it won't be low light foggy sky @ dawn/dusk but I'll still get to play! Since your going to be there compare it to their super sniper 5-20x50 HD too. It doesn't have the bells and whistles that some of the others do but I bet you will find the glass is a whole site better and its more repeatable that the PST. Good luck with whatever you chose. Maybe you just got a bad one? Mine got dust inside the front lens some how. Sent it on a Tuesday, got it back on Monday. I agree, SS 5-20 is a much better scope, but that was out of his budget. I know too many people who have got bad ones. I have ran leupolds, super snipers, swaro, nightforce, zeiss abd countless others and never had to send a scope in for repair. Owned 2 vortex and sent them both in within 6 months. Plus they are just not good glass for the price. You can find used super snipers for 900 usually and you have a way better optic. Or a leupold vx6. Or a leupold mark4. Or a bushnell. Or nigtforce shv. Or zeiss conquest hd5 with target turrets. Or several others that are all better IMO.
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.- Thomas jefferson
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6066378
12/04/15 03:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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Have a Vortex Viper HSLR 4-16 x 44. Pretty much the same as a 4-16 pst but no illuminated reticle and a caped windage turret.
The early and late isn't as good as what I would have hoped for but it does good enough for me. I have done a limited amount of dialing and it has returned to zero fine for me.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: J.G.]
#6066647
12/04/15 05:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
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FYI, rumor has it Vortex is extending their 35% discount that is LE and military to Firefighters now as well. Just spoke w/Vortex. No discount for FF's.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6066793
12/04/15 07:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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FYI, rumor has it Vortex is extending their 35% discount that is LE and military to Firefighters now as well. Just spoke w/Vortex. No discount for FF's. Well, you know how rumors go...
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067140
12/04/15 10:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,427
caddokiller
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I'm going to go to SWFA (<10 minutes away) tomorrow & compare the Bushy DMR next to the Burris XTR 2 & the PST as well. I know it won't be low light foggy sky @ dawn/dusk but I'll still get to play! Did ya go and what did you think?
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.- Thomas jefferson
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067409
12/05/15 01:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
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I only got to compare the: PST 4-16, 6-24 Leupy VX6 $2,400 Swaro Burris XTR 2 To MY eyes, in order of clarity: Swaro (of course) Burris Leupy PST (they were equal but the 6-24 was harder to get a proper eye alignment @ max zoom of 24) (The rest of this leaves the Swaro out.) The Burris has awesome turrets w/huge knobby's for a really good grip. I was really impressed w/the glass of a scope @ this price. It was really damn clear & crisp. Also, being 34mm tube, it was heavy & built like a tank. The VX-6 I only wanted to compare the glass clarity & no other options on it, seeing as it doesn't really have any other options! The PST does feel & view a lot like my Viper HS, except for the 6-24 having significantly more zoom. Glass is the same as my HS which is good enough but not 'WOW' like I got from the Burris. All the turret 'clicks' were completely acceptable among all the scopes. Didn't check out the Bushy DMR for 3 reasons: 1) they were trying to get ready for their Christmas party & I didn't want to bug them too much. 2) the guy working the counter said he doesn't like it because the turrets are absolutely huge 3) I ran out of time I'll go back soon & compare the Burris XTR-2 to the Bushy DMR. As of right now, if I can get the Burris for the same price as the PST, the Burris wins hands down. I was really awed buy it's glass & construction, not to mention all the cool bells & whistles it has.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067428
12/05/15 02:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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Good report! edit: I like the SCR Mil reticle. Looks like from zero there is a gap at .2 Mil, then .2 Mil hash marks the rest of the way to 1.0 Mil. That would make for some precise aiming.
Last edited by FiremanJG; 12/05/15 02:19 AM.
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067562
12/05/15 03:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
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The SCR is as you said & would no doubt be great for you. Just a bit too precise/busy for me!
From Burris: The SCR Mil reticle is ideal for precision competition use. With its extended illumination area, you can engage targets at long distances even in low light.
1/2-mil holdover lines 2/10-mil and 1-mil windage hold-off lines for precision 1/10-mil ranging brackets on the crosshairs, at the top, left, and right extremes Mil-based, proprietary Burris design SCR stands for special competition reticle Extended center illumination area lets you engage targets at long distances in low light and shadows Front focal plane design means trajectory compensation and wind hold-off references are accurate at any magnification Increases speed and precision for wind hold-off and for range estimation and impact measurement
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067623
12/05/15 04:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,090
Brother in-law
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I thought about a Burris but even scr was the reason I didn't I thought it might be hard to pick up in low light
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6067624
12/05/15 04:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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Did you look through it, at max magnification?
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6068736
12/06/15 02:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,113
flintknapper
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Email from Vortex today:
From: me Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 3:07 PM To: VX Information Subject: Vortex Glass Questions
Has the glass in the PST line, specifically the 4-16x50, been changed in the last couple years?
Is the glass the same in a Viper HS 4-16x44 and a PST 4-16x50 and/or 6-24x50?
Is the glass the same in the PST 4-16x50 & 6-24x50?
Is the glass the same in the FFP & SFP PST scopes (w/50mm obj.)?
Thanks!
Ken Calhoun VX <kcalhoun@vortexoptics.com> To me Today at 11:40 AM
The Viper HS, HS-LR, HS-T, and Viper PST all share the same glass and that hasn’t changed since their release.
All the best,
**Interesting & not very confidence building in the PST line! Makes me feel my Viper HS was/is a lot better deal than the PST FFP is. The chief complaint you'll read on the internet concerning Vortex Scopes (except the Razor line, made in Japan) is the quality of the glass. It usually isn't 'bad' (in full daylight), but it isn't anything to write home to Mom about either. I am not bashing Vortex Scopes (I own a Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm ill. reticle), but I am not 'impressed' with the glass (particularly the eyebox). To be fair...I use my scope in mostly low light conditions (a challenge for any scope) and the Vortex (at least mine) does not match certain other scopes I have that are in the same price tier. What I DO like about the Vortex model I own...are the many features it has and the relative level of quality and craftsmanship (save for the glass). IMO, Vortex could offer a MUCH better product (except for their Razor line, which is already good) if they would change their warranty policy. Currently, it is a Lifetime, Transferable, pretty much 'No Fault' warranty. No doubt... many a person has been attracted to that alone. Though it has been a great marketing tool for them, in order for their product(s) to remain profitable, one of two things must be at play: 1. The product(s) are indeed built with sufficient quality, as to insure a low return rate. 2. The company has included it's 'replacement cost' into the retail price right up front. IF...#2 were true, then a change to a limited warranty might allow them to invest more money toward providing better glass, which would then make it a mighty tough scope to beat. Disclaimer: This is my 'opinion' only and Vortex has NOT asked me to sit on their advisory board. Flint
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6116499
01/03/16 09:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,289
watchale
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So LFD, did you end up buying a scope yet? I'm racking my brain over here trying to make up my mind between the Burris xtrii, Bushnell LRHS, or waiting in the Nightfirce SHV ffp to come out. This will be the most $ I've ever spent on a scope and I am driving myself nuts trying to make up my mind what to get.
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6117425
01/04/16 04:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
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I have not. I blew too much money on Christmas gifts so it set my purchase back a bit. It'll either be the PST or the XTR II but I'm leaning heavily towards the XTR.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: LFD2037]
#6118085
01/04/16 06:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,356
J McCoy
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I've got availability on the XTR's with the G2B dot.
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Re: What Scope(s) Meet These Requirements?
[Re: flintknapper]
#6126591
01/09/16 04:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394
booradley
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Email from Vortex today:
From: me Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 3:07 PM To: VX Information Subject: Vortex Glass Questions
Has the glass in the PST line, specifically the 4-16x50, been changed in the last couple years?
Is the glass the same in a Viper HS 4-16x44 and a PST 4-16x50 and/or 6-24x50?
Is the glass the same in the PST 4-16x50 & 6-24x50?
Is the glass the same in the FFP & SFP PST scopes (w/50mm obj.)?
Thanks!
Ken Calhoun VX <kcalhoun@vortexoptics.com> To me Today at 11:40 AM
The Viper HS, HS-LR, HS-T, and Viper PST all share the same glass and that hasn’t changed since their release.
All the best,
**Interesting & not very confidence building in the PST line! Makes me feel my Viper HS was/is a lot better deal than the PST FFP is. The chief complaint you'll read on the internet concerning Vortex Scopes (except the Razor line, made in Japan) is the quality of the glass. It usually isn't 'bad' (in full daylight), but it isn't anything to write home to Mom about either. I am not bashing Vortex Scopes (I own a Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm ill. reticle), but I am not 'impressed' with the glass (particularly the eyebox). To be fair...I use my scope in mostly low light conditions (a challenge for any scope) and the Vortex (at least mine) does not match certain other scopes I have that are in the same price tier. What I DO like about the Vortex model I own...are the many features it has and the relative level of quality and craftsmanship (save for the glass). IMO, Vortex could offer a MUCH better product (except for their Razor line, which is already good) if they would change their warranty policy. Currently, it is a Lifetime, Transferable, pretty much 'No Fault' warranty. No doubt... many a person has been attracted to that alone. Though it has been a great marketing tool for them, in order for their product(s) to remain profitable, one of two things must be at play: 1. The product(s) are indeed built with sufficient quality, as to insure a low return rate. 2. The company has included it's 'replacement cost' into the retail price right up front. IF...#2 were true, then a change to a limited warranty might allow them to invest more money toward providing better glass, which would then make it a mighty tough scope to beat. Disclaimer: This is my 'opinion' only and Vortex has NOT asked me to sit on their advisory board. Flint I agree with you. I don't find Vortex scopes to be bad, but for my eyes there are scopes with better glass and eye relief in the same price range. My Meopro, VX-3 and Bushnell Elite 4200 are noticeably better in low light than the two Vipers I used to own - that is for my eyes.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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