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#6060179 - 12/01/15 09:20 AM Warning- TNT Hunting Company
Machete16 Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 11/30/15
Posts: 13
Gentlemen,

I have been reading the hunting forum daily for many years now, I have never posted anything and actually had to create an account for this post. I just enjoy reading the forums and looking at all the big buck pics. But I felt I needed to post this as a warning to other hunters.



The following is a review and or warning about my experience with Oren at TNT Hunting Company. It is in no way a personal attack on Oren, I donít know him other than meeting him once to give him a check, ask him why he was hunting my pasture, and talked to him on the phone a few times.



I have been hunting muleys for several years now, itís by far my favorite animal to hunt. When I came across this ad under the ďLand and LeasesĒ thread it caught my attention. TNT Hunting Company had a listing for 54,000 acres in Cochran County. Cochran county is well known for big mule deer and I got really excited when I saw this listing. This was the first ďred flagĒ that I neglected. Most ranches this size in good mule deer country donít have to advertise online to get hunters. But it got me excited none the less.



I called Oren right away and inquired on the lease. Oren informed me the lease was $3,500 and told me about all the big deer he had. He said I would get my own pasture to hunt for mule deer season (1 week) and said he had been seeing some really good deer on that pasture. I had to work up until Wednesday, I told him I would meet him Wednedsay, get him a check, and hunt the rest of the week. I talked to Oren Tuesday to see where I needed to meet him and to go over the lease, he then informed me he would be putting me on a 3 section pasture (1,900 acres). That threw up a red flag as I know in that country mule deer travel that far in a day. I told him I was concerned that wasnít very much country and he said he had been seeing at least 40 deer per day out there and that he had been seeing a 180 out there almost every day. He then told me about and sent me a picture of a 202 they killed a couple days prior. Instead of listening to the little voice in my head, he made me feel good enough about it to go through with the hunt. I showed up Wednesday, talked to Oren, and he lined me out on the pasture I could hunt. He then told me someone had already hunted and killed a deer on the 3 sections I was hunting. I hunted all day Wendesday- Sunday without seeing a mature buck and only a couple of does. I talked to Oren Friday and told him I had not seen anything, by Friday I had hunted the entire 3 sections pretty hard as this country is flat and not very thick. Between glassing and driving through it you can cover it all in a day. He told me he would move me to another pasture if the hunters for that pasture didnít show up. The hunters did show up so I had to keep hunting my pasture. Sunday morning I was glassing and I see Oren and his hunters riding in a high seat out Oren's hunting buggy. I follow them over to Orens truck which I find is parked on the 3 sections I was hunting. I drive over to them and ask him what the deal is and he tells me they arenít hunting my country they are just driving to another pasture. He may have been telling the truth but the hunters had their guns in the high seat and there was a county road that led to the pasture he claimed he was going to, he could have took the county road instead of driving my fence line and the fact that his truck was parked there makes his claim questionable. I also noticed they had a 100Ē 2 year old buck in the bed of his truck that he said they killed that morning (Picture below). At this point I was starting to get a little pissed off, I didnít say anything to Oren because I wanted to be respectful to him in front of his hunters but i felt like this place was not as advertised and the fact he was driving through my 3 sections on a 54,000 acre ranch made it worse. I called Oren 3 times Sunday, text him, and called and text him again yesterday asking him to please call me back as I was not happy with my experience. He finally text me back yesterday and said he was quail hunting, haven't heard from him since. Again, I cannot prove that Oren lied to me about anything (although I suspect he did). This is simply a review of my hunt and his operation. He clearly over books and over hunts this ranch which is a shame because it is really good mule deer country. I understand some people who do this for a living may have to sell as many hunts as possible and shoot any deer they see to make ends meet ( 2 year old pic below), that is fine. I just donít want someone else to see this ad and think they are getting a good deal on a mule deer lease. They did kill a pig of a deer out there this year (the 202í) but if he continues to hunt that place like this there wonít be many mature bucks out there in a couple of years. He has some really good deer on his website but all the pictures look really old. Iím not sure if he just picked up this ranch or if it just hasnít been hunted in several years, or if he even had anything to do at all with the deer in his pictures. After seeing the 2 year old he had in his truck Sunday I find it hard to believe he is consistently successful on big mule deer. Oren if you read this please give me a call. I am not expecting a refund but I would like to visit with you as I believe you were not honest with me on some things and would like to talk to you personally and figure out what if anything we can do to make this right. This was a bad decision on my part by signing up for this but I have learned a lesson and I hope some of you can learn from this as well, if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is!!





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#6060287 - 12/01/15 10:06 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
Wayne Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 70
Loc: The Colony, TX
Sorry to hear about your bad luck, Machete. I'm looking for a Muley hunt as well for next year. Probably pass this one up. Hope you get some sort of explanation or resolution.

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#6060338 - 12/01/15 10:36 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
Stompy Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 3874
Loc: Breckenridge Tx
The one thing that would concern me is not returning phone calls and texts. I sell a few hunts here at my ranch (not Deer) and I always return phone calls and emails promptly, even if I'm booked up or have nothing for the guy. To me it just the way you're suppose to run a business. Good luck, hope it works out for you.
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Cabin Rentals on the ranch for Hubbard Creek Lake

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#6060341 - 12/01/15 10:36 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
BuckRage Online   happy
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 20512
sorry to hear about your experience.
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-Chip


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#6060343 - 12/01/15 10:37 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
tShawnB Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 971
Loc: Rolling Plains
This part of the country will be hunted out in a few years if it isn't already. These big MD in this country got big because of very little hunting pressure which allowed them to age and grow to enormous proportions. You can't blame these folks in this part of the world for trying to make a buck, but they are exhausting their resources. Understand, these "outfitters" in this part of the country are just farmers for the most part who don't get it when it comes to hunting, protecting, nurturing and sustaining the growth of the MD population. 1900 acres in this part of the world is nothing when it comes to hunting. Sorry about you're hunt and most likely you're spot on about this guy and his operation, but he got his money.
_________________________
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#6060345 - 12/01/15 10:42 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
Captain Luke Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 1014
Loc: Duval County, Starr County
welcome to the forum! Thanks for the heads up.
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If you want some friendly advice, get a haircut and take a bath. You wouldn't get hassled so much.



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#6060394 - 12/01/15 10:58 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: tShawnB]
justin7-11 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 400
We are the hunters that shot the 202" mule deer. I am no way affiliated with TNT in anyway but jumped on this opportunity when I saw it on the forum. I do know a little about the ranch however as I looked at it to lease it last year but could not afford the whole 60,000 acres by myself. Deer density is extremely high on this ranch and it has many mature bucks on it as it has not been hunted in a couple of years. I can assure you that density of mature deer is as high on this ranch as it is anywhere in Texas. Mule deer hunting is extremely tough this year in that country as grass is high and brush is thick. Hunting weather was about as bad as it could be as well considering moon phase, wind, temps, ect. If you were not extremely lucky or had a vast understanding of finding mule deer in that country, the 9 day mule deer season this year was guaranteed to be a bust. The 202" deer we killed would have not been seen from a high rack or just about any other hunting method you could use. We had sit on him for hours at 40 yards away before he would stand up for a shot. We finally had to beat a couple of Yucca stalks together to make the deer look up for shot. I can tell you that the deer were there but without a $10,000 thermal imaging camera on a very cold day, 99% of hunters would have not saw this deer. The ranch is not likely to be over hunted with only a hunter per 3000 acres for 9 days in the thickest nastiest grass and brush in Cochran county.


Edited by justin7-11 (12/01/15 11:03 AM)

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#6060452 - 12/01/15 11:27 AM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: justin7-11]
justin7-11 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 400
Just to be clear, I was just posting a different experience that we had. We had about 2500 acres assigned to us without a lot of background info on the pasture. Typical DIY deal which is the way I prefer it as I have hunted Mule Deer a long time and did not want a guides input. Our hunt could have easily went the other way as well if it wasn't for a little luck and lots of time put in. In the end, we got much more than what was advertised to us. Oren told us he had been seeing a lot of deer which was true and that we would have the whole 4-5 sections to ourself which was true. He did not make any other guarantees to us and everything was as expected.

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#6061088 - 12/01/15 04:32 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: justin7-11]
Machete16 Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 11/30/15
Posts: 13
Justin,

First of all, congrats on the awesome buck! What a stud!

I have hunted in Andrews and Gaines in both the regular season and later through MLD. I understand these big bucks are very difficult to find in the regular season, even with ideal conditions. He may have as high of deer densities as anywhere in the state (excluding my 1900 acres)but mule deer densities anywhere in this part of Texas (you pick the county) are not HIGH. That's what makes mule deer so special to me, they are hard to find and you cant just go anywhere and kill a big mule deer. Regardless of what his densities are I can guarantee you if he continues to lease out 2,000 acre pastures and kill deer like the one in his truck (pic below) he will not have high "mature buck" densities for very long. I mean he has 60,000 acres and is leasing 1,900-2,500 acre pastures!?! That's 25-30 hunters a year. That is too many, even if only half of them kill something.

I just wanted to let people know my experience with TNT, FYI I still haven't heard from him.

Your experience was obviously much better, congrats again on the awesome buck.


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#6061127 - 12/01/15 04:52 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: justin7-11]
Creekrunner Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7196
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: justin7-11
We had sit on him for hours at 40 yards away before he would stand up for a shot. We finally had to beat a couple of Yucca stalks together to make the deer look up for shot.


scratch
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#6061140 - 12/01/15 05:01 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
jshouse Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 6238
Loc: Rockwall
Need pics of 202
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#6061213 - 12/01/15 05:36 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
justin7-11 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 400
I agree with you on that. No doubt you can't shoot many deer like that and run a trophy operation. A trophy desert mule deer ranch will only take a mature buck for every 10,000-20,000 acres, but hunts are also close to $10,000 on most of these hunts. I was not telling you that you were wrong in any way. I was just sharing that for a cheap mule deer hunt, we were satisfied and got more than we asked for. The bad thing about those counties over there is the hunter density. Every rancher in those counties has family down for the holiday hunting the heck out of their little 200 acre farm. I wish Oren would only sell about 6 hunts a year at $10,000 each off that place but I can not tell him how to run his operation. All of your points are correct if you are after trophy potential. Same thing happened to most of Gaines county with all those farmers running around shooting every buck out of the truck window. Thanks for the congrats on the buck. I hate to hear your trip was a bust but that is why those big mule deer bucks are special. I have customers at work that go to Sonora year after year and come home empty handed. It is really a rare deal to find trophy mule deer anymore.

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#6061219 - 12/01/15 05:39 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: jshouse]
justin7-11 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 400

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#6061242 - 12/01/15 05:51 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
TAT Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 4944
Loc: good ole texas
What a monster!
_________________________
It's not how you fall, It's how you get up.

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#6061263 - 12/01/15 05:59 PM Re: Warning- TNT Hunting Company [Re: Machete16]
bobcat1 Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 1485
Loc: Sanger, Texas


Nice Buck!
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Bobby Barnett


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