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#6025223 - 11/12/15 09:41 AM Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.)
Creekrunner Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7152
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Thereís a lot of good, Christian men (and ladies) on here, wiser than me, so Iíd like your opinions on an ethical/relational situation at our new lease. Iím sure some will slam, as is always the case when folks open themselves up on here, but so be it. I think Iíve figured out a decent approach, after listening to my wifeís input, but Iíd also like to hear from folks that have been on different leases and in different situations. ĎSorry for the long read.

A friend of mine has found us a great lease and we had a successful opening weekend. We are all hoping to stay on the lease several years, which is why I think I may need to settle this situation from the get-go. This friend has a hectic personal life, filled with lots of drama (raising his step-grandkids, etc.), and he really needs this lease to ďdestressĒ. He did bring this last weekend and plans to bring in the future his son, who is 20, but physically, emotionally, and socially the maturity of a 13 or 14 year old. My friend has never explained it to me. This young man supposedly graduated from high school, drives, etc., but isnít going to any school and has no job. He, and his dad, thinks heís a computer guru, but honestly all Iíve ever seen is him screw up almost everything he touches. He loses, breaks, or forgets things constantly, tries to get out of helping with anything, but when anyone says a meal is ready he will run you over to be the first in line.

We did 5 hunts this past weekend. I was asked by the dad to drop off and pick up this kid 3 of those times. He doesnít like getting gates; says ďIíd like to make you get itĒ to me. On one of the other two hunts his dad dropped and picked him up, he said he stuck a trophy buck too far back with an arrow. And, he immediately went chasing off after it up the hill. The next morning we all go out to help look. (It was a cluster, but thatís a whole different subject.) That night at supper his dad thanks all of us for trying to find the deer. This kid doesnít make a peep and has the most bizarre look on his face while his dad is thanking us. Heís just on to the next way he can try and kill something and it has to be with a bow Ďcause a rifle ďisnít challenging anymoreĒ. He carries his little laptop with him everywhere and the next day, when he, his father and I pulled the SD card from the camera at the feeder he supposedly stuck this big deer at, there were mysteriously no pictures during the time frame that he was in the blind.

In short, heís slow, but devious, tries to make wise-cracks, and is extremely lazy. Itís much easier to get things done when heís not around Ďcause you donít have to double check everything heís been asked to help with. He doesnít argue, just gets real quiet when he sees youíre getting irritated. I could list a bunch of examples of his extremely bizarre behavior, but that would just make me look like a bigger jerk than I already am.

Iím mad at myself that I canít seem to accept and tolerate this kid better because I had a mentally retarded brother (high-forceps delivery in 1941) that died just a couple of years ago and that I was his guardian at the end and was with him when he passed.

I spent most of opening weekend praying about this situation and how to approach the dad if he continues to try and pawn off his own son on others on a regular basis.

How would you handle it?
_________________________
Get unique, vintage letter press Christmas cards and gift cards from my kid in FW >>>: https://www.etsy.com/shop/abbypress

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#6025256 - 11/12/15 09:51 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
MarkE Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 1474
Loc: West Texas
Talk to the dad for sure.
Let the kid know that if he don't open the gates, then you will take him back to camp.
I'd also avoid going to the lease when the kid is going to be there.

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#6025262 - 11/12/15 09:53 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19228
Loc: Corsicana
Very tough one. Could talk for days on the ins and outs. But I won't.

To me, the bottom line is that the situation is disruptive and disrespects your right as a paying lease member to enjoy what you are there to do - relax, have a good time, and hunt.

Compassion and respect are two way streets. IMO this situation needs to be respectfully laid out on the table and dealt with. Now. The only workable result I see now is that either the boy has to go - or you have to go. Maybe there is some other solution, but I don't see it from what you have written.

Good luck.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6025277 - 11/12/15 09:55 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
DQ Kid Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 4063
Loc: Flower Mound, TX
If he truly is "intellectually disabled" I'd likely cut Dad and him a bit of slack this first week. I'd probably let things play out a bit more and if the "offloading" continues to be the norm, I'd probably address it privately/respectfully with his Dad.

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#6025285 - 11/12/15 09:56 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Got a similar situation in my family. From what I have seen it is lack of the parents dealing with it. In our instance the parents refused to accept that there was anything different about their child until he was 1/2 grown and the public school forced them to put him in special ed classes.

I will say that nothing that has ever been said about it over the past 20 years has been taken in a positive light and it is usually a relationship ender or at least puts it on the rocks for a few years. I wish you the best luck in dealing with it. Only advice I have is if it is a good friend then stay patient and do it for your friendship. Don't loose your cool with him, you will regret it.
_________________________
It's hell eatin em live

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#6025291 - 11/12/15 10:00 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
DH3 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 11/18/14
Posts: 309
Loc: Katy
If it were me, I would find another lease...by myself. If your friend continues to bring his 20 yr. old "Kid" to the lease, you will continue to stress about it; so I would cut and run as soon as next season.
I do not believe that a talk with the dad will result in any changes, based on what you have posted. He obviously does not see a problem with the kid who probably has ADHD or something similar.
You are going to lose a friend AND A PROBLEM.
There are plenty of good leases out there, spend some time looking in the off season.
A real shame, I feel bad for you and wish you better luck.

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#6025294 - 11/12/15 10:00 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
Mr. T. Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 1608
Loc: Fort Worth - Hunt in Eastland ...
Tough call especially if he is your friend and he is the one who found the lease and brought you in on it. That being said, what are your lease rules. I imagine that you are allowed to bring family members if they hunt off of your tags. If it is not that case, is he paying for a spot on the lease? First of all, at twenty he is not a kid anymore but an adult. If he had told me "no" on getting out to get the gate I would have turned around and driven under his fathers stand telling him what the kid said and that "I am not his chauffeur." and if he wants to ride with you, he will open the gates or find someway else to get to his stand.
I'm no help at all, but you cannot let one person ruin what is supposed to be fun times. I wish I had the answer for you.
_________________________
Ski cabin rental in Pagosa Springs.
www.pagosaspringscabin.com

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#6025300 - 11/12/15 10:02 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
tShawnB Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 966
Loc: Rolling Plains
I will save the Good Lord the hassle and give you the answer you need: The kid is not a kid, he is 20, an adult and not your problem...well he maybe he is. This won't get better, I guarantee it. The bottom line is it's you or the "kid". Is your misery worth this? I would have dealt with it the first hour of the first day AND I don't have any friends that I hunt with that would put me in this situation to begin with.
_________________________
How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?

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#6025301 - 11/12/15 10:02 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23574
Loc: Wise County Texas
CR, kid sounds more spoiled and catered too, more than anything. If he truly has a mental deficiency, that is one thing, but using that as an excuse is worse IMO. IMO, sounds like the dad "pawns" him off, may have been an issue long before you came along.

I personally don't see anyway you will be able to fully enjoy the expense of that lease, with this man and his son, any approach and their nature the way you explain it, you will be the blame.

I think you are smart to deal with this right off the bat, but be prepared for rebuff. When he told you "I'd like to make you get it" at the gate, would have been enough for me, if his dad allows that kind of disrespect, then everyone else will have to tolerate it and I couldn't.

Good luck my friend, I'd rather hunt 5 acres alone, then 1000 with that problem.
_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


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#6025302 - 11/12/15 10:02 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
HuntnFly67 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 4494
ech. Tough situation.

Sounds like with the laser focus you are describing and missing the social cues he may be 'on the scale' and possibly have Asperger's Syndrome or possibly undiagnosed autism.

I think you have to speak with the father about it - especially since it appears to be diminishing your enjoyment of the lease. A solution might be to push for revision of the guest policy next season and gut it out this season? Our guest policy is that kids 18 and under can hunt with a parent. After that, they count against the one guest per gun three times per season.

Sucks for the boy's father since he sounds like he needs the time to unwind as well.

It is hard to adopt a servant's heart in this situation; especially when you intended to enjoy the hunting the way you wanted to and this situation inhibits that. I do think it is unfair that you feel this burden as it is not yours to bear.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Grizz
If you attached NP's head to Scooter's body, would muscle memory cause him to beat himself to death?


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#6025305 - 11/12/15 10:03 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Guess it depends more if he is a friend or an acquaintance. Ive got friends that are family and ive got a few I wont go too far out of my way for. The later I don't typically refer to as a friend unless im in their presence.
_________________________
It's hell eatin em live

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#6025309 - 11/12/15 10:04 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
BigPig Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9476
Loc: Forney, Tx
That's a tough one, and I'm not the best for giving advice in this situation, but here is my advice; leave camp before they ever do and try not to be at the lease when they are. I'm not good with situations like that and normally open my mouth and speak before thinking, I have no filter. There is a family member on my wife's side that is like that, although I think he is babied way too much and that's a large part of the problem, but I just distance myself from him so as to eleminate any problems
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#6025324 - 11/12/15 10:09 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
HuntnFly67 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 4494
I re-read your post and the comment he made about the gate bothers me for you. That is pretty dang brazen to say something like that. I think the dad needs to be put on notice when that was pulled. A 'verbal slap' of that kid wouldn't have been out of line; taking him back to camp wouldn't have either.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Grizz
If you attached NP's head to Scooter's body, would muscle memory cause him to beat himself to death?


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#6025348 - 11/12/15 10:15 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
rtp Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 3508
Loc: texas
Been through this in other aspects of my life but not on a lease. My personal experience finally brought me to the conclusion that no matter how much I wanted things to be different, no matter how much I tried, it was a hopeless situation because I had no control of it. I simply chose to remove myself from it because in the end I was miserable. I cant foresee anyway this works out in your favor to where you will be happy. The kid isnt going to change and the dad isnt going to remove his kid from the lease. Just my opinion. I wish the best for you and for sure God will lead you to the decision you need to make at some point.
_________________________
Let'em grow old

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#6025357 - 11/12/15 10:16 AM Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner]
Creekrunner Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7152
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Thanks to all of you that have responded so far. There's good points in every single post.

Yeah, here's an added wrinkle - this is a church friend. So if the situation blows, we'll still have to face each other. My friend is quite a bit of a "delegator" and attempts to order people around, knows the only way to do something properly (especially hunting), etc., but, because of this, he'll quarter your deer, measure your deer, cook lots of meals, etc. I think the kid has watched this all his life so he thinks he's in some kind of royal family or something.

The kid got the gate. No way in hell I wouldn't make him, or, as stated, take him back. I told him that if he wants other men to respect him then the polite thing is to get the gate. Another time I tried to show him gate "etiquette" like putting on your back-up lights for the guy at night, etc. Again, he doesn't argue; just has a blank stare forward when you're trying to speak seriously to him.

Thanks again for the help guys.
_________________________
Get unique, vintage letter press Christmas cards and gift cards from my kid in FW >>>: https://www.etsy.com/shop/abbypress

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