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#6019443 - 11/09/15 11:39 AM SHR- question about marking distance
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
In general (I know they vary depending upon terrain), how far are the marks used in SHR hunt tests? I'm new to the hunting test thing, I have a 5 1/2 month old lab and I want to get him going in this as early as possible.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, like I said I'm new to the whole hunting test thing. Just trying to get an idea of how far he needs to be marking before I start him in tests. I looked through the rulebook and it says that it depends on terrain but I have no clue if there is an average for that. I've been working him anywhere from 40-85 yards on marks.

Thanks!
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#6019574 - 11/09/15 12:52 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
It does vary. I have seen 90+ yards in the early spring with no cover and I saw 25 yards in the fall in heavy cover. Your best bet is get your dog marking well in most conditions out to at least 100/yards on land. As far as water most of them are going to splash but I would still have your dog comfortable with long swims, shoreline cover, sticks, vegetation, and decoys before running. You want the the dog over prepared. The very best bet is to get your dog running cold blinds before running running even the lower levels.

Good luck.
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#6019640 - 11/09/15 01:28 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
Thanks Mr. Marshall, that was exactly the information I was looking for and I appreciate the response.
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#6019911 - 11/09/15 04:08 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
Angie B Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 1429
Loc: Aubrey, TX
Also at a test your dog will only go out about 75% of his normal training distance before he puts up a hunt. So always train longer then your normal test length.

Angie
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#6019925 - 11/09/15 04:13 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
Troubador Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/22/12
Posts: 484
if you want to test you dog go run juniors. ive seen to alot of started and NEVER seen a started mark over 50 yards and i have on multiple occasions even got wet from the splash of the bird hitting the water 10 feet in front of me. i have never seen a started water mark test not land in the water. the started level has 1 puprose, to reel people into the sport and get them hook by getting ribbons. people like getting ribbons and not to many people dont get ribbons in the started level. your dog doesnt not even have to be force fetched so you see people diving at there duc to get it from dogs mouth. ive seen 3-4 mo old dogs pass a started test. i mean come on, a 3 mo old passing a started test? it proves my point exactly of they just want to reel you in. they do a good job of it. now once you get into the seasoned and finished is when the real teamwork starts. . i like the hrc and love hunt test and love seeing kids at the events running the test. you cn probably throw a bumper farther tahn any land mark will fall. good luck and have fun

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#6020035 - 11/09/15 05:13 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
Well so far, he can do water marks out to probably 30-40 yards (I'm certain he could probably do further, I just haven't haven't pressed it), he can do land marks out as far as I can throw a bumper, he will bring the bumper back, heel properly, then deliver to hand. He is steady at the line until I send him (This is limited though because I haven't steadied him around much distraction other than my female lab who honors very well and who he's used to being around).

I'm going to start gun breaking him this week which shouldn't be too hard.

He takes sit and come by voice, whistle, and e-collar. He knows stay by voice and will stay for a fairly extended period. He also knows place.

My next step is to start working more on remote sit (even though he knows sit on whistle he has a hard time sitting remotely when he isn't heeled).

I'll then get him going on blinds. I'm dying to hunt him this year but I think I'm going to hold off... I may hunt him on doves during the later season but definitely not ducks this year.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
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#6020191 - 11/09/15 06:47 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
passthru Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 10868
Loc: Saginaw, Tx
Sounds like you are moving along well. My pup isn't quite that far, although 50 yard water marks tossed by a helper is easy for her, but I will put my dog on birds this season. That drive for prey is something I want to nurture and waiting another year isn't going to work for me.
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#6020268 - 11/09/15 07:25 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
It's really hard pass thru. If I didn't have my female I would be much more inclined to hunt him this year. But since I have her and she hunts good I think I'm going to make sure he has directionals, blinds, and force fetch complete. It seemed like my female lost interest in bumpers right after I took her on her first duck hunt and she picked up a few ducks :-)

Buck has some funny issues though that I didn't have with my female. He hates riding in the truck, which is weird because I take him somewhere at least every other day, he's getting better though. If zipper (my female) even hears keys she gets excited and positions herself to jump in the back of the truck. Buck is really mouthy with birds too. I've only let him retrieve a few birds on a check cord so far, and the first time I did it he did NOT want to give it up. I'll fix this a little later, but those are two off the wall issues I've experienced with him so far that I did not have with zipper.
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#6023091 - 11/11/15 09:24 AM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
Sniper John Online   happy

gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16271
Loc: North Texas
hunting_guy,
My observations running my Vizsla I have seen HRC Started on water where the bird was thrown on the bank not much more than 30 yards away around a bend, to an AKC Junior that was every bit of 100 yards on open terrain against a tall backdrop of trees and the wind to my back. Most HRC tests for Started I saw were very short retrieves. In fact I don't think I ever saw a very long setup in a Started test. As said HRC wants their Started tests to be an entry into the sport, successful, and fun. Some AKC Junior were longer, but most of those not that much longer.

A pitfall that caught me on that long setup I mentioned. I was training my Vizsla at a set distance for retriever tests related to were I had to train at the time. That 100 yard test my dog only ran his training distance, stopped and started searching for a bird even though he had seen the mark farther away. My dog thought he was doing what I wanted him to do. So you might want to vary your distances in training sometimes. Throw in some very short and very long situations just in case. The short water retrieve I mentioned I saw most having trouble keeping their dogs from cheating the bank on that one because it was so close. The bird was being thrown on the bank to my left so as a simple solution I asked the gunner to stand to my left and heeled my dog on my right. Thus blocking the dog to have to enter the water and unable to run the bank.

Something else to expect that you may want to prepare for since to mention Buck being mouthy with birds. Hunt test ducks can sometimes be very nasty and in poor shape from multiple retrieves.
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#6023642 - 11/11/15 01:23 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
That's good info Sniper John. I'm working real hard with Buck on obedience right now and mixing in different angles and distances for the dummy so he doesn't get conditioned. It was easier before daylight savings time because my wife would get off work before dark and I had an extra set of hands around to throw dummies and give direction. I don't have that luxury anymore because it gets dark, so it makes things a little more difficult doing it myself.

As I stated earlier, I started working on place command real heavy this week and it has helped tremendously with his remote sit. I also moved his kennel to where he has a direct line of sight to the backdoor about 30 yards away. I feed him twice a day and when I walk out the door in the morning and evening with his food, I blow the whistle once to get him to sit before I feed him. This has really cleaned up his remote sit.

Last night, once he started to get the idea of place, I'd get him to run to place about 15 yards away and turn around and sit, then throw the dummy behind me about 20 yards and have him stay on the place and wait. I'd then release him to get the dummy. Tonight I'll do that same thing but get him to return to his place with the dummy, instead of heeling to me.

Since he's so young, I've also started working with him at my son's soccer practices around lots of people to clean up his steadiness on a line and his focus (but to be honest he has always been real good about being steady until he's released).

Next week I'll start gun breaking with a .410. I'll probably throw some dummies for him while my son shoots the 410 behind us and close the distance.

There's really not much better than training a dog and seeing them when their lightbulb goes off and they "get it" and then transferring that to the field and watching them work. You can almost see them thinking "Oh..., this is what I'm supposed to do." I'm definitely addicted and I'm very lucky to have a good pup who is very eager to learn because I'm sure I'm making plenty of mistakes.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice. I'll try and post up some pictures of his training.
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#6026110 - 11/12/15 04:00 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
Here's buck marking a bumper about 40 yards off of his place. I made him wait quite a bit before I released him and say different things besides his name to try and get him to go when he's not supposed to but he held firm and only left when called.

I'll try and get some water mark pictures in the next few days.















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#6026854 - 11/12/15 11:16 PM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: hunting_guy]
Troubador Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/22/12
Posts: 484
there is a pretty specific guideline and you have to do step D before you move to E and move to F etc etc or you will cause some problems down the road. get witha pro like kevin her

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#6027303 - 11/13/15 09:11 AM Re: SHR- question about marking distance [Re: Troubador]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: Troubador
there is a pretty specific guideline and you have to do step D before you move to E and move to F etc etc or you will cause some problems down the road. get witha pro like kevin her


Troubador, you talking as far as getting the dog through hunt tests or training in general?

Thanks!
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