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#6017740 - 11/08/15 10:11 AM FL sizing .223
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
This question is mainly directed at Chad but I thought I would put it out here just in case it may help someone else.
I am once again processing a large quantity of .223 ammo mainly for 3 Gun. I cleaned and decapped about 10,000 pieces and now I am running it thru a Hornady swager ( new one that runs on the press)to remove primer pocket crimps. I did a few hundred on the swager then sized and primed just to make sure I had it set correctly and all worked fine.
Now to the question and this is not a new issue to me just that I have once again tried to solve it but thought there has to be an easier solution.
When I run my brass thru the Hornady L-N-L progressive using a Redding FL die set to bottom out on my plate in the machine 80-90% of my brass measures out with good headspace. But there is always some portion of brass that the headspace is .003 to .008 too long. Well in a bolt gun that is OK as you have the camming action to force it closed in most instances. AR's are a whole different animal and we all know the fun of a locked up action.
MY solution has been to check each and every piece(slow process) and sort out the longer ones and resize in a single stage press using a SB die I bought but never use except for this. OH and before you say just put the SB die it in the Progressive I have put 3 different SB and standard dies in there and all do about the same...infact the SB die makes is worse as it seems to push more brass into the shoulder area as it squeezes the lower portion of the brass smaller( my theory).
My assumption is the flex in the progressive on the more fatigued brass allows this. One interesting thing I noted today was after I sorted out the longer one I installed the SB die in the Forster press bottomed out and it took out about 1/2 the excessive length so I swapped over to the RC press and with a light cam-over It took all to a .004 set back off 0 on the tool.
Since there are folks such as Chad thet process tons of this stuff my question is how do you size to get ALL brass set back to minimum on every piece running progressive presses. Hoping there is a simple easy solution that I am just overlooking or have not considered.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.

PS just noticed I put this in the Firearms instead of reloading. I am OK with either(same folks) but if the Mods want to move thats fine too


Edited by DStroud (11/08/15 10:24 AM)

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#6017887 - 11/08/15 12:59 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
603Country Online   content
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Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4861
Loc: Central Texas
Man...I'm still coping with the thought of doing 10,000 pieces of brass. Wow!

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#6017904 - 11/08/15 01:25 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: 603Country]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
Originally Posted By: 603Country
Man...I'm still coping with the thought of doing 10,000 pieces of brass. Wow!


Thankfully my son who shoots most of it decap's most of it and cleans a lot as well. I gave him a stainless media cleaning system for Christmas ( hint to help) grin and I have one as well. So over the last few months we have got almost half the brass cleaned just piddling around on occassion. I am not sure how many pieces we still have to clean but there are a LOT.

We cleaned and sized trimmed and primed 2000 the day after Christmas just to get ready for this past year but have not done anything except decap and clean since. I was actually waiting for the Hornady swager before we cranked back up. It's better than using the the RCBS/Dillon I was using.

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#6017918 - 11/08/15 01:42 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
My bet is Chad is going to say to anneal the brass to get it to all headspace the same.

But I'd like to know his answer as well.
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#6017931 - 11/08/15 01:53 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: FiremanJG]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
My bet is Chad is going to say to anneal the brass to get it to all headspace the same.

But I'd like to know his answer as well.


Thats not really worth doing as most of this brass is blaster ammo that may or may not be recovered in comp.
It's probably going to involve running the brass thru two dies is what I am thinking.

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#6017962 - 11/08/15 02:21 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
hovercat Offline
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Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 429
Loc: Pantego, TX
My guess is that the expander is dragging on the necks.
You can lube the inside of the case necks, and do a short tumble after sizing to remove the lube. Or
Since the cases are already deprimed, remove the entire pin/expander assembly from the die. Boattail bullets should still seat easily. A quick turn or two, in your case x10,000, with an inside deburring tool will create a slight bevel and allow seating of flat base bullets.

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#6018436 - 11/08/15 08:29 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: DStroud
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
My bet is Chad is going to say to anneal the brass to get it to all headspace the same.

But I'd like to know his answer as well.


Thats not really worth doing as most of this brass is blaster ammo that may or may not be recovered in comp.
It's probably going to involve running the brass thru two dies is what I am thinking.


Sort it out into a new pile. Or, have you tried running it through the same die again? Size it, rotate 90 to 180, size it again, I've done this before. Just spit-balling here.
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#6018460 - 11/08/15 08:46 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
I have already fixed all that I have sized so far about 300 pieces today. I ran them thru a RCBS SB die on the Rockchucker.
Since I had already primed them all I just removed the decapping pin from the expander spindle.

Now I am back to the grind of running all the brass thru the Swager.... probably have about 1000 done 9000+ to go. eek2


Edited by DStroud (11/08/15 08:49 PM)

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#6018595 - 11/08/15 09:53 PM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
RiverRider Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/07
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9000 bottles of beer on the wall. Lordy.
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God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6018972 - 11/09/15 08:32 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Good post! I have also had this problem with 223 and 300 blk out sizing brass on my Dillon 1050's. So what's happening is a standard FL die can not get every case fully sized on the progressive press. I have also seen the shoulders too far forward after a standard FL sizing on progressive presses. I'll check the brass in my rifles and chamber check gauges and see how much more sizing I need to do at the shoulder. Usually it is about .004" to .006" additional shoulder bump needed to be within spec. To solve this problem, I called my Dad up and went to their house to use his grinding wheel. I fire up the grinding wheel, and carefully and evenly take off .004" to .006" on the bottom of the die! This gives you enough bump to get ALL your brass sized to minimum for 100% chambering.

Also, there are companies that offer brass processing services. When they call me, I specifically ask how they size their brass, and what press. Then I ask what dies they run, and tell them this problem that DStroud is having. They tell me their brass is better and 100% good, so I ask for a free sample. They mail it to me, and I'll measure the head spacing and case wall dimensions. Almost all of them get a call from me telling them that not all their brass is to spec, and they assure me it is. I then spit out head space numbers telling them that X amount of cases out of the 50 I measured will not chamber in my 223's or in my head space gauges. Customers want 100% reliable ammo, 100% of the time. So, X amount out bad one's of 40 or 50 measured is far off from 100%.
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#6019147 - 11/09/15 09:37 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
thanks for the reply Chad.
I knew that I could not be the only person who has encountered this issue. I am going to try one more thing but thinking I will possibly contact one of the die makers and ask if they make a .223 die that's about .005 short or explain my problem and see what they say.

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#6019221 - 11/09/15 10:09 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Your gonna have a huge popeye arm on one side and a little gimpy one on the other by time you finish all that! roflmao
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#6019247 - 11/09/15 10:21 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: redchevy]
DStroud Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1154
Loc: Waco
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Your gonna have a huge popeye arm on one side and a little gimpy one on the other by time you finish all that! roflmao


My wife did say I was walking kinda crooked this morning... cool

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#6019264 - 11/09/15 10:29 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Shoot, it's normal occurrence to crank out 1K rounds or more on a daily basis around here! But, I do HATE running my 223 sizing when we do a big run. I normally do about 5K pieces at a time for my 223 subs.
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#6019285 - 11/09/15 10:37 AM Re: FL sizing .223 [Re: DStroud]
Cleric Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 2579
But why is this happening. If the die is set correctly where is the space coming from? Is it just tolerances stack?

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