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Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? #5994885 10/26/15 03:33 PM
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Noticing quite a bit of price difference in the different brands. Any certain ones that are known to be crappy?


Originally Posted by bill oxner
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5994912 10/26/15 03:51 PM
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You'll never see me own a PMS (DPMS) AR. 1- for their performance (lack of), and 2- for several of their sponsored shooters and company support of those cheating shooters in competitions. I know there are shooters who like their DPMS rifles. Sometimes my selections of products goes beyond what they offer, or how well their product may or may not be.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5994921 10/26/15 03:56 PM
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Thanks Chad. I do value your opinion. What about Windham weaponry?


Originally Posted by bill oxner
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: ChadTRG42] #5995010 10/26/15 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
You'll never see me own a PMS (DPMS) AR. 1- for their performance (lack of), and 2- for several of their sponsored shooters and company support of those cheating shooters in competitions. I know there are shooters who like their DPMS rifles. Sometimes my selections of products goes beyond what they offer, or how well their product may or may not be.


DAMN!!!! LMAO, no sugar coating there..

My opinion is you get what you pay for..

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995037 10/26/15 05:14 PM
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Colt, Rock River, Bushmaster, and up, and factory.

Windham, CMMG, Diamondback and others are decent, but won't hold value as above.

And nothing with polymer upper or lower.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995087 10/26/15 05:49 PM
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I have shot many and ran a lot of ammo though AR's , shot the best and had problems as matter fact i have one Daniel Defense in the bottom of my tank i had enough of it .DPMS is a great AR and love the 6 i have ow , i also have a few Armalite AR-10 that do run good but they have there draw backs as well .You do get what you pay for but sometimes the cheaper ones are better running guns and that is just fact .

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995220 10/26/15 07:23 PM
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I can't really recommend a BAD AR made by a licensed manufacturer however I will recommend you stay away from the "hobbyist" builder with no credentials or experience building ARs except what they read on ARFCOM or saw on YouTube! Just my opinion...YMMV!


Last edited by TXGUNNER308; 10/26/15 07:23 PM.

Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995312 10/26/15 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN
Noticing quite a bit of price difference in the different brands. Any certain ones that are known to be crappy?


It all depends on what you're going to do with it. Why are you buying it? Is it a range toy, occasional plinker, truck gun? Is it going to be used hard for training, HD/SD, patrol, etc? This is an area in which the phrase "Buy once, cry once" applies...

Recommend nothing but an AR from a Tier 1 manufacturer (Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc), and you get dogged as a "tacticool" fanboy with more money than sense. Talk bad about about DPMS, CMMG, Bushmaster, Rock Island, etc and you'll get covered up with stories about how my X is just as good as your Tier 1 at half the price.

There ARE big differences in the products put out by the various manufacturers, so don't let anyone tell you different. This is a pretty friendly forum, so I don't want to step on any toes, but there are a lot of crap rifles frequently mentioned and recommended here that are, or may be, perfectly fine for occasional use. Those rifles, however, will not stand up to serious use, long-term use.

You'll be able to easily find a Colt 6920 with standard furniture for $850 or so. Pick up some PMags, a good two-point sling, and some decent ammo, and build from there. You cannot go wrong with that basic set-up, and it will absolutely retain its value. In fact, add a quality WML and an Aimpoint PRO, and you've got an excellent HD/SD rifle that absolutely needs nothing else other than to be cleaned, lubed, and shot.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995726 10/27/15 12:56 AM
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I firmly believe in the "buy once and cry once" rule for guns!

I say just stay away from the cheapest AR you can buy and you will be fine.


GO TRUMP!
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995734 10/27/15 01:01 AM
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The three DPMS rifles I have had have been great, and I've shot with one of their sponsored at Texas Multigun a couple years ago and he was a good shooter, as well as being a great guy.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995787 10/27/15 01:31 AM
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The only issue that I had with my DPMS was the heavy trigger. I swapped it out with a Rock River National Match 2 Stage trigger and have ZERO issues with the gun.

Bushmaster used to have a reputation as a substandard construction. but from what I understand, their quality control has greatly improved their product.

If you buy a Colt, you are buying a good gun, but you are also paying for that horse on the magazine well.

I love my Rock River Lower and I have it mated to a Stag Arms left hand upper. I would recommend either brand.

I agree with above, stay away from the polymer and carbon composite frames.

Last edited by bull279; 10/27/15 02:07 AM.

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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Tactical Cowboy] #5995796 10/27/15 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tactical Cowboy
The three DPMS rifles I have had have been great, and I've shot with one of their sponsored at Texas Multigun a couple years ago and he was a good shooter, as well as being a great guy.


I have had 4 of them, still have one. All were sub moa shooters. Don't really know how they would be after a thousand rounds because I really do not shoot hem very much but I can't say anything negative about them.


Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5995954 10/27/15 02:43 AM
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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5996250 10/27/15 12:38 PM
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I have had several AR's but more upper end performance rifles with little experience shooting lower end AR's. With that being said, I would check out some specific AR forums on the web to get additional advice. I believe in most cases you get what you pay for and cutting corners and cost on firearm isn't the best way to go.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5996493 10/27/15 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN
Noticing quite a bit of price difference in the different brands. Any certain ones that are known to be crappy?


What specific models are you looking at? Many of the low cost models are not as full featured as other rifles... for example, the S&W M&P 15 Sport. It lacks the forward assist and the dust cover, as these features were eliminated to lower cost. For a recreational shooter, these features have little to no value.It also has a twist rate that more compatible with the 55 gr and 62 gr ammo readily available at Walmart. The rifle is also fully capable of serving in a home defense role, or even as a "SHTF" type scenario.

Ruger has also released a budget AR. Biggest difference between it and the Sport is that it has an unlined barrel, compared to the Melonite treated barrel on the Sport. Again aimed at the commercial, recreational type shooter.

These may not be the first choice for a patrol officer or a war fighter deploying to Afghanistan, they can serve the recreational shooter quite well, and at a lower cost than Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Tactical Cowboy] #5996495 10/27/15 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tactical Cowboy
The three DPMS rifles I have had have been great, and I've shot with one of their sponsored at Texas Multigun a couple years ago and he was a good shooter, as well as being a great guy.


I don't know about anything that Chad mentioned and yes there are things that are more important than just performance as he said but I do own a DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor AR and it flat out shoots! It will put five rounds in a 1/2 inch at one hundred years which for an AR and it being factory I consider pretty darn good.

Oh, and it only cost me $1250.00...

Last edited by Deerhunter61; 10/27/15 02:38 PM.
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: cyphertext] #5996513 10/27/15 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN
Noticing quite a bit of price difference in the different brands. Any certain ones that are known to be crappy?


What specific models are you looking at? Many of the low cost models are not as full featured as other rifles... for example, the S&W M&P 15 Sport. It lacks the forward assist and the dust cover, as these features were eliminated to lower cost. For a recreational shooter, these features have little to no value.It also has a twist rate that more compatible with the 55 gr and 62 gr ammo readily available at Walmart. The rifle is also fully capable of serving in a home defense role, or even as a "SHTF" type scenario.

Ruger has also released a budget AR. Biggest difference between it and the Sport is that it has an unlined barrel, compared to the Melonite treated barrel on the Sport. Again aimed at the commercial, recreational type shooter.

These may not be the first choice for a patrol officer or a war fighter deploying to Afghanistan, they can serve the recreational shooter quite well, and at a lower cost than Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc.


I knew my S&W M&P 15 sport was a low end model when I bought it, but hey, for $550 on sale before the last big panic how could I go wrong? After having used it for a few years now I can say, nothing but satisfied. I have thousands, upon thousands of rounds and abuse through that thing with zero problems. This includes shooting a bunch suppressed, and a bunch with the bump stock suppressed. Like you said, perfect plinker or SHTF gun. That being said my Rock River is hands down a better rifle but at over triple the cost it should be.

Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/27/15 02:45 PM.
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Threelranch] #5996516 10/27/15 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Threelranch
I have shot many and ran a lot of ammo though AR's , shot the best and had problems as matter fact i have one Daniel Defense in the bottom of my tank i had enough of it .DPMS is a great AR and love the 6 i have ow , i also have a few Armalite AR-10 that do run good but they have there draw backs as well .You do get what you pay for but sometimes the cheaper ones are better running guns and that is just fact .


You threw a DD in a tank? You realize they have a lifetime warranty? I'll PM you my number, next time you get that urge, give me a shout.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5996654 10/27/15 04:14 PM
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At a shooting competition, Team PMS (DPMS), blatantly cheated on a stage. They were always known for being right on the edge of questionable behavior and gaming stages to their advantage. After the stage in question, it got very heated. We had video of the stage in question, also. Multiple shooters, including myself, contacted DPMS corporate, board members and the president of DPMS. I personally spoke to the president of DPMS at the time about the situation. I informed him of the details of what happened. He agreed that it shouldn't have happened, but did nothing. The same shooters were back at it again at a competition not long after that. F DPMS! When you get to the point that your shooters have to cheat or game stages to bend the rules to gain the advantage, you've gone too far. I can not support a company that does this or sponsors shooters who behave like that.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #5996677 10/27/15 04:29 PM
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How were they cheating?

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Cleric] #5996748 10/27/15 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
How were they cheating?


I would like to know too... because from just the info provided, it just sounds like sour grapes.

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If Chad gets beat fair and square, he will congratulate the guy that beat him. If Chad is throwing the bs flag on cheaters, you can bet they were cheating.


Otherwise this is a very educational thread. up


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: ChadTRG42] #5996804 10/27/15 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
At a shooting competition, Team PMS (DPMS), blatantly cheated on a stage. They were always known for being right on the edge of questionable behavior and gaming stages to their advantage. After the stage in question, it got very heated. We had video of the stage in question, also. Multiple shooters, including myself, contacted DPMS corporate, board members and the president of DPMS. I personally spoke to the president of DPMS at the time about the situation. I informed him of the details of what happened. He agreed that it shouldn't have happened, but did nothing. The same shooters were back at it again at a competition not long after that. F DPMS! When you get to the point that your shooters have to cheat or game stages to bend the rules to gain the advantage, you've gone too far. I can not support a company that does this or sponsors shooters who behave like that.

Some business don't care if they lie, cheat, or steal as long as they are making money. up


Originally Posted by unclebubba
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: J.G.] #5996816 10/27/15 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
If Chad gets beat fair and square, he will congratulate the guy that beat him. If Chad is throwing the bs flag on cheaters, you can bet they were cheating.


Otherwise this is a very educational thread. up


My question was based on curiosity. I thought most high level matches were very controlled. I do not think chad would claim cheating without evidence, which it sounded like he had

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Cleric] #5996853 10/27/15 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
How were they cheating?


Long story short. Tiger Valley Team Sniper Match. A few stages prior to the one in question, it was brought up that Team DPMS were gaming the rules, and maybe crossing a few lines. So, we told the RO's to be more specific on the stage descriptions and what's allowed/not allowed. A few shooters voiced their opinions to DPMS, and they said they were professional shooters, don't mess up, and understand how to run the stages correctly.

The next stage was a run and gun stage and about half way through the stage, you were to "put on" a gas mask, and complete the stage with the gas mask "on" and sealed. When you put a gas mask on, it creates a seal, and limits your breathing, and limits your vision, especially when shooting a pistol or AR. I specifically asked does the gas mask need to be worn (somewhere on your body), or does it need to be "put on" and sealed. The RO specifically said "put on" (with his hand over his face) and worn correctly. I asked this question with Team DPMS standing next to me and they heard the response. A few teams had run the stage, and worn the mask correctly to how the RO described, with all of us watching. Team DPMS went, and they put the masks on top of their heads like a hat where there was no seal and could easily breath and see clearly. As they were running and shooting the stage, people were telling them to put the mask "on". They never did. After they ran the stage, every shooter who saw this was furious, especially me. Just 15 minutes before this stage, they were arrogant about how professional shooters they were and knew how to run stages. Then this stage they said they didn't fully understand the rules and the RO descriptions. One of the shooters said he did not hear the rule on sealing the mask, and blatantly lied. I almost punched him in his mouth. Unfortunately, some shooters/teams will do anything to win, including cheat. That does not set well with me at all. This was the first time I had witnessed blatant cheating and lying about it. They were also DQ'd a few matches later for "gaming" stages outside of the rules, which is the nice way of saying cheating. If you know me, I'm a happy and friendly individual. But when you cross my line, it's crossed and it's not going back. F them!


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