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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6000332 10/29/15 04:44 PM
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How about Stag and Rock River Arms, are these names with good reputation/quality?
Are there any pros/cons to either?


Eduardo
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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: 12shotgun] #6000499 10/29/15 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: 12shotgun
How about Stag and Rock River Arms, are these names with good reputation/quality?
Are there any pros/cons to either?


Those are both reputable companies making quality AR's. I own 5, none of which are the above mentioned, but I have friends who have them. I've handled and shot them. They're good guns. I have a couple entry to medium level (Spikes and Palmetto State) and BCM and DD as well. They are more expensive but many times I prefer a gun I can take to the field and not worry about scratching it or dropping it etc.

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: Gacman] #6000570 10/29/15 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: gacman
Originally Posted By: 12shotgun
How about Stag and Rock River Arms, are these names with good reputation/quality?
Are there any pros/cons to either?


Those are both reputable companies making quality AR's. I own 5, none of which are the above mentioned, but I have friends who have them. I've handled and shot them. They're good guns. I have a couple entry to medium level (Spikes and Palmetto State) and BCM and DD as well. They are more expensive but many times I prefer a gun I can take to the field and not worry about scratching it or dropping it etc.


Thank you.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: kry226] #6000601 10/29/15 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: kry226
Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: kry226
Name one former SOF guy with a legitimate reputation (like Vickers, Howe, Haley, etc.) who runs his own shooting school and endorses a lower tier rifle. I knew of one several years ago and he no longer endorse that rifle.

These guys see hundreds of guns shoot thousands of rounds per year and I know of none who currently do.


You mean like Kyle Lamb and the S&W M&P 15 VTAC II rifle?

S&W M&P 15 Vtac II



Who said the S&W was low tier? It was always in a respectable spot on "The Chart". Very respectable, especially at it's price point.


Pretty much everyone on forums... 4140 steel barrels (VTAC II and MOE Mid being the exceptions), many with 1:9 twist rate, semi auto carriers, bolts believed to be batch tested vs. individually tested... And then the Sport came out and everyone and their brother bad mouthed it, referred to it as "cutting corners", yet it had the same bolt and carrier as the rest of the line, and the barrel was a Melonited, 1:8 twist barrel...

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: 12shotgun] #6000608 10/29/15 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: 12shotgun
How about Stag and Rock River Arms, are these names with good reputation/quality?
Are there any pros/cons to either?


I have a Stag LH Upper paired to a RRA lower. Love them both.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6000620 10/29/15 08:02 PM
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For the money rr is very accurate

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: cyphertext] #6001295 10/30/15 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: kry226
Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: kry226
Name one former SOF guy with a legitimate reputation (like Vickers, Howe, Haley, etc.) who runs his own shooting school and endorses a lower tier rifle. I knew of one several years ago and he no longer endorse that rifle.

These guys see hundreds of guns shoot thousands of rounds per year and I know of none who currently do.


You mean like Kyle Lamb and the S&W M&P 15 VTAC II rifle?

S&W M&P 15 Vtac II



Who said the S&W was low tier? It was always in a respectable spot on "The Chart". Very respectable, especially at it's price point.


Pretty much everyone on forums... 4140 steel barrels (VTAC II and MOE Mid being the exceptions), many with 1:9 twist rate, semi auto carriers, bolts believed to be batch tested vs. individually tested... And then the Sport came out and everyone and their brother bad mouthed it, referred to it as "cutting corners", yet it had the same bolt and carrier as the rest of the line, and the barrel was a Melonited, 1:8 twist barrel...


Well there's a lot of keyboard commandos and self-proclaimed experts on forums. peep And most of them don't know what the real world difference is between 1:7 and 1:9, semi or auto carrier, etc., or even if it matters. You should Google "AR15 chart" if you haven't already. Facts don't lie and they have no opinions. You'll see the S&W has very respectable characteristics, especially with their BCG. That's not to say they didn't come out with cheaper versions and actually cut corners to capture more of the market.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: kry226] #6001314 10/30/15 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: kry226


Well there's a lot of keyboard commandos and self-proclaimed experts on forums. peep And most of them don't know what the real world difference is between 1:7 and 1:9, semi or auto carrier, etc., or even if it matters. You should Google "AR15 chart" if you haven't already. Facts don't lie and they have no opinions. You'll see the S&W has very respectable characteristics, especially with their BCG. That's not to say they didn't come out with cheaper versions and actually cut corners to capture more of the market.


I'm familiar with "the chart" and it isn't even updated anymore... hasn't been for years. And the last version I saw, S&W would not respond to Rob, so S&W was removed from the chart as he could not validate the info he had. S&W stated that the info was "proprietary"...

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6001332 10/30/15 05:55 AM
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Im not I fan of the chart, Its great if your looking for "mil spec" but there are better rifles that arent mil spec, that to me are better rifles and in some cases less expensive. A lower is a lower is a lower... as long as its in spec and not plastic its good to go, plus your probably going to be swapping parts like legos anyway. Just get a decent trigger and the lower is good to go. Spend you money on the upper that best fits what you want out of it. Better yet build it yourself with the components you want, It actually save you money in the long run from swapping parts later. Just tossing in my 2 cents

Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6001356 10/30/15 09:33 AM
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The chart served its purpose and was a good tool for quickly glancing at what each rifle offered. Which brings me to my original point from way back in the beginning... that things like the chart and criticisms on forums have really caused some low tier manufacturers to step up their game in the last five years or so.

It still doesn't mean, however, that I'm going to voluntarily trust my life to an off-the-shelf Bushmaster.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6001360 10/30/15 10:07 AM
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I bought a DPMS A3 Classic for myself and a Stag Model One for my son three years ago. I have no complaints and neither rifle has ever hiccuped. I did install Timney 3 lb triggers in them because the factory triggers were way too heavy. DPMS CS isn't the friendliest out there. Found that out after I went to work at the Cabela's Gun Counter a year and a half ago. I like Windham the best in a sub $1,000.00 AR. Don't care for Bushmaster and we don't sell very many. S&W sells very well. The AR we sell the most of is the DPMS Oracle. It chaps me that the gas block is so low that you can't use a standard front BUIS. If we could get enough in I believe the new Ruger would be our best seller.


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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6002100 10/30/15 06:42 PM
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If you want a cheap plinker, buy a cheap plinker. It's a good time to buy since they are cheap right now. For me, I want an accurate rifle. The main keys to an accurate AR is the barrel and the trigger (assuming you don't buy cheap crap for the rest of the gun). Cheapest way to get the accuracy I want is to build it myself. Are you going to stay within your budget? I am never able to but others might. It won't hold the value like an off the shelf gun will but it will out shoot almost all of them. Buy once, cry once, keep it for life and be happy with it.


It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

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Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6002878 10/31/15 03:01 AM
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That.

But......

Accurate is subjective.

Dinging 200 yard plates open sights is accurate to me, making the same hole over and over from 50 yards is another.


Pass the gravy.


Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: cyphertext] #6003922 11/01/15 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: cyphertext
Originally Posted By: kry226


Well there's a lot of keyboard commandos and self-proclaimed experts on forums. peep And most of them don't know what the real world difference is between 1:7 and 1:9, semi or auto carrier, etc., or even if it matters. You should Google "AR15 chart" if you haven't already. Facts don't lie and they have no opinions. You'll see the S&W has very respectable characteristics, especially with their BCG. That's not to say they didn't come out with cheaper versions and actually cut corners to capture more of the market.


I'm familiar with "the chart" and it isn't even updated anymore... hasn't been for years. And the last version I saw, S&W would not respond to Rob, so S&W was removed from the chart as he could not validate the info he had. S&W stated that the info was "proprietary"...


Yep


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: Are there certain brands of AR's to stay away from? [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #6004015 11/01/15 01:44 AM
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Not going to wade into the fray, but I specifically bought my S&W Sport because it has a Thompson Center barrel, which, IMO, is one of the best mass-produced barrels out there. I wouldn't use it in the sandbox, but for recreational hunting it is ideal for my needs, which I think is the thing that many folks overlook when guys start talking brands. If you need a $2500 gun for your needs, then go for it, but don't bash those that are happy with their lower-end guns. YMMV


Old age ain't for sissies!

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