I have had 4 of them, still have one. All were sub moa shooters. Don't really know how they would be after a thousand rounds because I really do not shoot hem very much but I can't say anything negative about them.

Long story short. Tiger Valley Team Sniper Match. A few stages prior to the one in question, it was brought up that Team DPMS were gaming the rules, and maybe crossing a few lines. So, we told the RO's to be more specific on the stage descriptions and what's allowed/not allowed. A few shooters voiced their opinions to DPMS, and they said they were professional shooters, don't mess up, and understand how to run the stages correctly.

The next stage was a run and gun stage and about half way through the stage, you were to "put on" a gas mask, and complete the stage with the gas mask "on" and sealed. When you put a gas mask on, it creates a seal, and limits your breathing, and limits your vision, especially when shooting a pistol or AR. I specifically asked does the gas mask need to be worn (somewhere on your body), or does it need to be "put on" and sealed. The RO specifically said "put on" (with his hand over his face) and worn correctly. I asked this question with Team DPMS standing next to me and they heard the response. A few teams had run the stage, and worn the mask correctly to how the RO described, with all of us watching. Team DPMS went, and they put the masks on top of their heads like a hat where there was no seal and could easily breath and see clearly. As they were running and shooting the stage, people were telling them to put the mask "on". They never did. After they ran the stage, every shooter who saw this was furious, especially me. Just 15 minutes before this stage, they were arrogant about how professional shooters they were and knew how to run stages. Then this stage they said they didn't fully understand the rules and the RO descriptions. One of the shooters said he did not hear the rule on sealing the mask, and blatantly lied. I almost punched him in his mouth. Unfortunately, some shooters/teams will do anything to win, including cheat. That does not set well with me at all. This was the first time I had witnessed blatant cheating and lying about it. They were also DQ'd a few matches later for "gaming" stages outside of the rules, which is the nice way of saying cheating. If you know me, I'm a happy and friendly individual. But when you cross my line, it's crossed and it's not going back. F them!

I have no experience with sniper matches, but it sounds like they should have earned a procedural or stage DQ.

However, I can't see bashing a company for having bad sponsored shooters, while the company turns out a good product, especially for the price point.

Also, if you look around at matches, you will see plenty of rules being severely bent or broken, while RO's do nothing about it. Sometimes the match director will look the other way for reasons unknown, but it is still not the company's fault.

My problem is blatant cheating, lying to my face about it, and a company that stands behind their shooters and allows them to continue with this behavior. When/Where do you draw the line? To each his own.

All that being said I love my Windham I got at Walmart for $349 on clearance, I have no idea how many rounds have been through it but it'a a lot and it just keeps on ticking

I refuse to buy anything with zombie graphics or, of course, anything that is pink.

That's where I draw the line.

I refuse to buy anything with zombie graphics or, of course, anything that is pink.

That's where I draw the line.

What does gaming the rules mean?

I agree with the Zombie part... Hornady's Zombie Max ammo is a joke for $3 more a box.


We did dress my wife's AR in pink Magpul furniture.

I might build my daught a pink AR in the near future. Gonna wait to see if she wants pink or purple or just an old black scary gun.

Texas DPS State Troopers carry stock Bushmasters. They put probably 1000 rounds through them every range training day. I know the state likely went with the lowest bidder when they bought the rifles but if there were a major problem with the rifles, I'm sure we'd have heard about it and they'd have changed the guns by now.

Name one former SOF guy with a legitimate reputation (like Vickers, Howe, Haley, etc.) who runs his own shooting school and endorses a lower tier rifle. I knew of one several years ago and he no longer endorse that rifle.

These guys see hundreds of guns shoot thousands of rounds per year and I know of none who currently do.

^^^^

Charles, I'll stand behind that line with you.

You mean like Kyle Lamb and the S&W M&P 15 VTAC II rifle?

S&W M&P 15 Vtac II