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Leupold’s Custom Dial System
#5993752
10/25/15 09:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,659
Hopedale
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5993784
10/25/15 10:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Waste of money. Get a Mil/ Mil scope and label the turrets yourself, with a label maker. When the environmental conditions change, and your trajectory changes you can adjust as needed.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: J.G.]
#5993866
10/25/15 10:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,778
Gone to Texas
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Waste of money. Get a Mil/ Mil scope and label the turrets yourself, with a label maker. When the environmental conditions change, and your trajectory changes you can adjust as needed. I used this tip from you after I took your shooting class Fireman, I love it!
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5993892
10/25/15 11:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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Great in theory. But only applicable to one bullet at one velocity at one condition. The more posted solution on the board is to use mil or Moa turrets for more control
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5993961
10/25/15 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 728
TxHunter80
Tracker
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The VX3 CDS was a waste of money for me. It didn't track well when I pulled it out of the box and tracked worse after Leupold "fixed" it. I'm sure others have had better luck. I would love to hear of some scopes, in that price range, that track well enough to depend on when hunting.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: TxHunter80]
#5993965
10/25/15 11:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
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The VX3 CDS was a waste of money for me. It didn't track well when I pulled it out of the box and tracked worse after Leupold "fixed" it. I'm sure others have had better luck. I would love to hear of some scopes, in that price range, that track well enough to depend on when hunting. This one will http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x44-Viper-HS-T-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P63837.aspxIf it doesn't then Vortex will fix it. The 2 I've had tracked as close to perfect as I can shoot, and would always return to ZERO.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5993968
10/25/15 11:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: TxHunter80]
#5993989
10/26/15 12:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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The VX3 CDS was a waste of money for me. It didn't track well when I pulled it out of the box and tracked worse after Leupold "fixed" it. I'm sure others have had better luck. I would love to hear of some scopes, in that price range, that track well enough to depend on when hunting. I have had better luck. I have mounted 4 VX3's and 2 VX6's and all tracked well (not all were perfect but close)and returned to zero. I never took them past 750 yards I must admit. They were on hunting rifles not Tactical precision type weapons. I personally don't use the CDS but for some folks it is a viable option.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994000
10/26/15 12:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978
el_cazador713
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978 |
What's a good way to test if your scope is tracking well?
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: el_cazador713]
#5994019
10/26/15 12:16 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
THF Celebrity
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What's a good way to test if your scope is tracking well? Make a dot on a piece of paper. Shoot 4 shots into that dot, then turn your windage 6 inches right and fire 4 more times at the dot, then turn the elevation up 6 inches and fire 4 more shots at the dot, then turn windage 6 inches left and fire 4 more shots, then turn elevation down 6 inches and fire 4 more shots, you should at that point have 8 shots in the original dot. That's how I do it
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994022
10/26/15 12:17 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,175
scottfromdallas
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I have one sitting in a box that I picked up a few weeks ago. A VX3 3.5-10x. It was on sale at $400 down from $550. I had $200 in Cabela's points so I took a chance on it. I plan on playing with it after hunting season. You can do the same thing with tactical turrets for sure but Leupold's tend to be lighter which can help if you are trying to keep rifle weight down.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994046
10/26/15 12:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,129
Brother in-law
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I use it and for my needs it has worked. I set it up for an average for the places I hunt and a specific bullet.
If you're a person that hunts the same topography and you're not a tactical dude or wannabe within 5-600 yards it will work fine.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: el_cazador713]
#5994084
10/26/15 12:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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What's a good way to test if your scope is tracking well? there are multiple ways to accomplish the task. I try to test both tracking reliablity and check to see if my scope is tracking straight up vertically at the same time. I take a large paper target usually 4' tall at 100 yards. You can draw a line vertically and then hang it straight with a level or easier just hang a plum line. Put a sticky dot near the bottom just to one side of your vertical line. I shoot one shot at the dot then dial 10 mil elevation ( if MOA I dial 15-20 elevation)and you should theoretically hit 36 inches higher and the same distance from the line as the dot you are still aiming at. Dial back to zero and you should hit the original dot. Clear as mud right! I used to check windage but not so much anymore as it's not as critical to me personally for most applications.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: BigPig]
#5994095
10/26/15 12:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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What's a good way to test if your scope is tracking well? Make a dot on a piece of paper. Shoot 4 shots into that dot, then turn your windage 6 inches right and fire 4 more times at the dot, then turn the elevation up 6 inches and fire 4 more shots at the dot, then turn windage 6 inches left and fire 4 more shots, then turn elevation down 6 inches and fire 4 more shots, you should at that point have 8 shots in the original dot. That's how I do it What scope tracks in inches? jvr_dejesus, You have to have a super tight shooting rifle to shoot it. The better method involves one shot, and no others, but you need the rifle locked in so it cannot move. Make an "X" on the top of a 3' tall piece of paper at 100 yards. If you are in Mils, come down 3.6" and make a narrow line, 3.6" from tjere and make another one, repeat until you are 36" down from the X. Make the scope look dead center of the "X". THE SCOPE CANNO MOVE FOR THIS TO WORK! Dial impact up 1.0 Mil, the reticle should now be looking exactly on the first hash mark below the "X", make any notes telling perfect, high or low in Mils. Dial impact up 2.0 Mils, the reticle should be exactly on the second line below the "X". Repeat for as many Mils as you will ever dial. If you want to shoot it to see (need a very tight shooting rifle) make the X on the bottom of the paper. Check zero there. Dial up 1.0 Mil, shoot one round. The bullet hole should measure 1.0 Mil above the "X" in the reticle, repeat as far up as you would like. Replace the Mil with MOA if you have an MOA scope. Then you would make a line 1" above the "X", 2" above, ect. Checking windage tracking is not something I ever do, since I rarely dial wind anyway. Elevation is way more important since it is dialed all the time.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994136
10/26/15 12:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 41,173 |
I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page. The difference is that I actually shot every distance, wrote down perfect corrections, then attached the labels after the fact. Any tracking error in the scope was built into the labels as opposed to relying solely on a ballistic calculator to give predicted corrections. And the ballistic calculator assumes a perfectly tracking scope, which rarely exists.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: J.G.]
#5994327
10/26/15 02:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373
Scooterb
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 373 |
I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page. The difference is that I actually shot every distance, wrote down perfect corrections, then attached the labels after the fact. Any tracking error in the scope was built into the labels as opposed to relying solely on a ballistic calculator to give predicted corrections. And the ballistic calculator assumes a perfectly tracking scope, which rarely exists. If you use the G7 calculator(I'm sure others do also, but that's one I've used) you print one out as a starting point. After trajectory validation, which is the same method you used, which takes into account any individual tracking anomalies, you have an accurate representation of your actual trajectory. You then send in your dope for your custom turret. That's how Gunwerks and Vortex do it. Now, we all know that's only good at one altitude, temp, etc., but you can still cheat a click here or there as needed. I don't see anything wrong with it when done correctly. It's when someone guesses muzzle velocity and/or guesses trajectory that the turret becomes worthless. It is also not meant to be abused where you validated to 400 but are now attempting a 600 yd shot because the turret said so.
"I have too many guns," said no one, ever.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: J.G.]
#5994337
10/26/15 02:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 757
fast88
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 757 |
I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page. The difference is that I actually shot every distance, wrote down perfect corrections, then attached the labels after the fact. Any tracking error in the scope was built into the labels as opposed to relying solely on a ballistic calculator to give predicted corrections. And the ballistic calculator assumes a perfectly tracking scope, which rarely exists. So in theory your method would work on any scope with a turret you can mark correct? Shoot at the distances you would like and mark the turret. It would work for mil or moa along with the Leupold cds turrets.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994352
10/26/15 02:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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But if you are going to validate your come ups, why would you need a marked turret. If shooters would learn how to properly dial in mils (or moa), they will be better off. I will never understand why a shooter would spend all this time, effort, and money on a good rifle, ammo, and scope, then go with a "custom turret" set up and make this the weakest link in the chain. If you want to dial quickly out to 400-500 yards, then it will generally get you on target. Beyond that, the turret can easily be off.
We are shooting these days with the best bullets, powders, barrels, and scopes. The marked turret waters down the consistency. I've had multiple shooters call me frustrated because they set up their turret and could not get on target with factory ammo.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: fast88]
#5994355
10/26/15 02:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638 |
I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page. The difference is that I actually shot every distance, wrote down perfect corrections, then attached the labels after the fact. Any tracking error in the scope was built into the labels as opposed to relying solely on a ballistic calculator to give predicted corrections. And the ballistic calculator assumes a perfectly tracking scope, which rarely exists. So in theory your method would work on any scope with a turret you can mark correct? Shoot at the distances you would like and mark the turret. It would work for mil or moa along with the Leupold cds turrets. Yep. To answer Fireman I do not disagree with your assertion but that is why I check the scope rfile combo with the ammo before having the CDS made. So far tracking errors are so small to be negligible and for hunting big game not a problem. Now if I were shooting smaller targets at 1000 plus CDS is not really a viable option IMO. Chad I agree but some folks are not into ballistics and ammo and have no real interest in learning. You can argue they have NO business shooting longer ranges but that does not prevent them from taking that 500-600 yards shot. I had one buddy tell me of dialing his scope to first 500 then after a miss dialed to 750 for another shot at a running hog. He said he never saw where the bullet hit either shot. he then showed me the rifle with a 4-14X40 Nikon scope... I asked how he dialed quick enough since it had covered turrets?? He showed me how he dialed to the ranges marked....... on his parallax! I fixed him up with a CDS VX6.
Last edited by DStroud; 10/26/15 02:50 AM.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: J.G.]
#5994372
10/26/15 02:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716 |
What's a good way to test if your scope is tracking well? Make a dot on a piece of paper. Shoot 4 shots into that dot, then turn your windage 6 inches right and fire 4 more times at the dot, then turn the elevation up 6 inches and fire 4 more shots at the dot, then turn windage 6 inches left and fire 4 more shots, then turn elevation down 6 inches and fire 4 more shots, you should at that point have 8 shots in the original dot. That's how I do it What scope tracks in inches? jvr_dejesus, You have to have a super tight shooting rifle to shoot it. The better method involves one shot, and no others, but you need the rifle locked in so it cannot move. Make an "X" on the top of a 3' tall piece of paper at 100 yards. If you are in Mils, come down 3.6" and make a narrow line, 3.6" from tjere and make another one, repeat until you are 36" down from the X. Make the scope look dead center of the "X". THE SCOPE CANNO MOVE FOR THIS TO WORK! Dial impact up 1.0 Mil, the reticle should now be looking exactly on the first hash mark below the "X", make any notes telling perfect, high or low in Mils. Dial impact up 2.0 Mils, the reticle should be exactly on the second line below the "X". Repeat for as many Mils as you will ever dial. If you want to shoot it to see (need a very tight shooting rifle) make the X on the bottom of the paper. Check zero there. Dial up 1.0 Mil, shoot one round. The bullet hole should measure 1.0 Mil above the "X" in the reticle, repeat as far up as you would like. Replace the Mil with MOA if you have an MOA scope. Then you would make a line 1" above the "X", 2" above, ect. Checking windage tracking is not something I ever do, since I rarely dial wind anyway. Elevation is way more important since it is dialed all the time. Excuse me, 6 MOA, you knew what I meant.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5994558
10/26/15 11:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
You need to verify in hot and cold conditions. Here in North Texas our hunting season temps range from 80°-20° plus or minus 10° and not all loads or powders are as consistent through temp swing as others are. This can cause issues at range depending on how far and how much of a swing will determine the amount of discrepancy on target.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: fast88]
#5994617
10/26/15 12:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173 |
I will say that the CDS has some limitations that posters above have mentioned BUT if you are aware of them then it works as advertised. In fact the picture that FiremanJG posted showing a homemade version which is essentially the exact same system only not as permanent proves it is effective. The advantage of CDS is an etched turret that is durable and clean looking but does limit you to that load and set of conditions..... which for some folks is completely acceptable. The best example I can give is I have a good friend who wanted a 7mm WM just for hunting his ranch in the Davis Mountains. He likes the caliber as he uses it on his S Texas Ranches but wanted to be able to make longer shots on Aaudad and Elk out west. Horizon Firearms built the rifle and I mounted a Leupold and calibrated his CDS for his load and the conditions out West and last year he was 3 for 3 on shots from 550 to 642. Some of the pictures of his kills are on Horizons web page. The difference is that I actually shot every distance, wrote down perfect corrections, then attached the labels after the fact. Any tracking error in the scope was built into the labels as opposed to relying solely on a ballistic calculator to give predicted corrections. And the ballistic calculator assumes a perfectly tracking scope, which rarely exists. So in theory your method would work on any scope with a turret you can mark correct? Shoot at the distances you would like and mark the turret. It would work for mil or moa along with the Leupold cds turrets. Not just theory, proven. Say a guy really wanted a Schmitt and Bender that costs $3500, and he could only afford one. He could have a pic rail on every rifle and with the right rings, move the one scope on every rifle he had. From .17 rimfire to .50 BMG and everything in between. Elevation is in Mils and Windage is in Mils. Take notes of the environmetal conditions before learning how the load shot at various distances. Make a custom turret if you like. All it is, is a place to put a DOPE chart. It's the same information, just in a handy place on the rifle.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5995023
10/26/15 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 680
Eyesofahunter
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 680 |
My issue with the system is the CDS dial will not stay in place under field conditions. Three times I found the dial off zero during use. IMO it was a system designed in a lab and was never taken afield. Mine is a VX 2, in the glossy ad it looks like there is a locking lever on the VX 6 CDS but according to Customer Support there is no locking feature. It is back in the box for now waiting for a paper punching rifle to arrive.
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: Hopedale]
#5995436
10/26/15 09:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638 |
there is a model of the VX6 that has a zero lock for sure. I just put two of them on 300 Win Mag's.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Leupold’s Custom Dial System
[Re: DStroud]
#5995862
10/27/15 02:02 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,732 |
there is a model of the VX6 that has a zero lock for sure. I just put two of them on 300 Win Mag's.
Bingo, I really like them and put them on a ton of rifles. I don't use it as much on my personal rifles because I can't ever decide on what ammo I am going to shoot as we are always testing stuff. However my wifes gun is set up with one and I have used it out to 771 and its bingo. The trick is once you get the turret zero it at 400 on whatever spot on your turret is 400. IE if you turn it to 400 and you are 2 clicks low make the adjustment and set your 4 at that distance. Dial it back to 200 (what I use as my zero stop) and bingo for every hunting situation they are wonderful. For my wifes 7 we have 3 turrets, one that will cover Texas, one for our place in New Mexico, and one for my buddys place in Wyoming. Gets the job done simple and nice. My opinion great way for people to extend the range a little bit while you learn more about long range hunting/ shooting.
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