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#5990870 - 10/23/15 02:57 PM yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch.
jorge Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3944
Loc: Lake Jackson, TX
Hi yall, i want to start off by saying that this is clearly an idea only.

We have 850 ac HF ranch with lodge in Jim Hogg, about 45 min south of hebbronville. Some members have hunted oryx with me there. It has lots of potential to be a fantastic place.

I want to see if there is any interest or input pros and cons for this idea. Ranch was primarily used for exotics with some non native whitetail genetics brought in. There is low number of wt for the place. What i propose is a long term 7yr to 10yr minimum lease where a small group of hunters that hunt together are given 1 oryx every year we have a sustainable herd and half the lease money goes toward stocking the ranch with quality wt, not record deer but very respectable wt genetics. Obviously all this would be spelled out clear as day in contract.

Its kinda like leasing a ranch in my head. There would be specific management practices in place that would ensure highest chance for establishing a solid herd of wt.

I know some of yalls initial inpression might be im trying to get something on someone elses dime, but thats why im asking for yalls opinion. Thats not what im trying to do. What could i add or take away from the idea that would be a win win for the family and potential lessees. Im not 100% sure its a good idea, just a thought that came to me.

Thanks for your time!


Edited by jorge (10/23/15 02:57 PM)
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#5990900 - 10/23/15 03:13 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
TxAg Offline
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Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 3253
Loc: Live in Katy, Hunt in Llano Co...
I think the idea has some promise to it. Just to clarify:

-The lease members would each get 1 oryx per year, in addition to being able to hunt Whitetail (typical allotment: a couple does, 1 cull, 1 Trophy)?

-Then, you would use some of the lease money to bring in additional deer to the ranch that the hunters would not hunt?

I don't think there is anything wrong with using lease revenue to try to improve the ranch. If done right it is a win-win for all sides.

Before you launched it I would think through how many actual deer you will want harvested each year, and how many guns you want taking them. Also think through what type of access the lease hunters would have to the lodge and house.
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#5990931 - 10/23/15 03:39 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
nak Offline
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 783
Loc: DFW
I think its workable, with a few tweaks, but the real concern I would have is signing a 7 - 10 year lease with folks you do not know....and finding folks that do not know you that are willing to sign a 7 - 10 year lease. All the folks that I know with long term leases (both on the landowner and hunter sides) only went long term after several years of annual leases, to build trust and make sure everyone was playing nice together.
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#5990935 - 10/23/15 03:41 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
jorge Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3944
Loc: Lake Jackson, TX
Thanks txag, yes each lessee would get 1 oryx. Might be a cow might be a bull depending on ratio and maturity. By my count this is sustainabke for 3-4 hunters for 4-5 years. There are also some fallow and aoudad which can be substituted. Then a break to let mature oryx numbers build back up. the wt i see 1 mature shooter and 1 doe, with culls wide open to ensure money invested in herd isnt getting wasted/diluted by non favorable genetics. Possibly more than 1 buck and 1 doe as things are evaluated further. Ideally, my goal is for lessees and family to work together to have year in year out 1 trophy 160+, 1 mgmt 120-, and tag out on does and spikes. Full disclosure biggest bucks are probably 140ish. Now that the ranch land has been divided, and only my immediate family has access or say in the ranch the poor management practices have ceased to stop. The lodge sleeps 10, and all other amenities will be for the hunters, then family 2nd. Also, myself and 1 other family member who are avid hunters would frequent but only to help culling and do maintenance, we'd share a blind. I view this as a business and dont want to jeopardize a win win relationship with the right lessees. family only uses it sparingly for a few select family holiday get togethers all out of season like easter is a major one. Yes, the wt brought in will be on the table to shoot but not immediately, as i would like those genetics to reach every corner of the ranch, hence the long term deal. Ideally i would like staggered age ranges, so that the lessees can see a return on investment as quickly as possible. I want to avoid a scenario where someone says "ok in 5 years im off and i just wasted my time, effort, and money." I want where family and lessees have equitable skin in the game.

I conpletely agree its tough having trust go both ways, but there would be monetary penalties both ways to ensure everyone stayed inline. Maybe thats a little optimistic, but i think there are some great people out there on this forum, id take a chance like this with.
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#5990953 - 10/23/15 03:48 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Who would pay for the protein if it is required to be fed? Who would put it out? Who pays the utilities on the lodge? Year round usage? Bird hunting? Any cattle on the place? Road maintenance? Who sets harvest quotas and call what buck a cull/management/trophy? I have seen a few place do this and it work out great. Get the wrong group and it is a total train wreck. I met 2 guys who were from Houston looking for something like this.
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#5991004 - 10/23/15 04:11 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
jorge Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3944
Loc: Lake Jackson, TX
I go down there alot and the other family member that would hunt lives 45 min away. So we would help out as much as possible feeding and keep the maintenance up. Utilities would be paid by us. Yes year round usage, but there are a couple of out of season holidays where entire family meets at ranch. Feed/protein hunters except for the one family blind. Harvest quotas and sizes would be set by me but i want input from hunters so that things dont get crossways. Dove would be included, and id consider quail, but i dont want that to distract from main goal of bettering wt herd. Id need references like any other land owner from previous land owners. And id let prospective hunters tour the place for the weekend. There is about 15-20 head of cattle for ag exemption. Also if one of these guys had a dream of breeding, pens and water are already in place close to lodge, and that would be on the table too.
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#5991035 - 10/23/15 04:31 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6472
Loc: Lubbock, TX
I don't know how many people are going to want to take an oryx every year for 7-10 years. I think you'd be better off just selling oryx hunts and using that money to fund your WT initiative. I don't think mixing lease hunters and family is a good idea, either. Either lease it out with your restrictions and leave family out of it, or keep it for the family and just do periodic hunts/weekend hunts that you have control over.
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#5991160 - 10/23/15 06:09 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
don k Offline
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Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 9277
Loc: Bandera, Tx
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
I don't know how many people are going to want to take an oryx every year for 7-10 years. I think you'd be better off just selling oryx hunts and using that money to fund your WT initiative. I don't think mixing lease hunters and family is a good idea, either. Either lease it out with your restrictions and leave family out of it, or keep it for the family and just do periodic hunts/weekend hunts that you have control over.
You have some very good points there.
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#5991182 - 10/23/15 06:30 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
rtp Offline
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Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 3508
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
I don't know how many people are going to want to take an oryx every year for 7-10 years. I think you'd be better off just selling oryx hunts and using that money to fund your WT initiative. I don't think mixing lease hunters and family is a good idea, either. Either lease it out with your restrictions and leave family out of it, or keep it for the family and just do periodic hunts/weekend hunts that you have control over.


This^^^^
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#5991203 - 10/23/15 06:42 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: don k]
blackcoal Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 7568
Loc: 60 Mi North of DFW
Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
I don't know how many people are going to want to take an oryx every year for 7-10 years. I think you'd be better off just selling oryx hunts and using that money to fund your WT initiative. I don't think mixing lease hunters and family is a good idea, either. Either lease it out with your restrictions and leave family out of it, or keep it for the family and just do periodic hunts/weekend hunts that you have control over.
You have some very good points there.


Amen. typical statement "hunter #1-I'm sorta POed at that Jorge character, let's his nephew come in and shoot the biggest buck on the place. hunter #2-yeah, and when we were here two weeks ago those nieces had some friends a drinking and shooting all night long" My suggestion might include going back to a post that was running about 2-4 months ago about what upset hunters about other hunters and land owners. Read that and be prepared to eliminate all complaints for a 7-10 year lease.
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#5992984 - 10/25/15 02:51 AM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
jorge Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3944
Loc: Lake Jackson, TX
oryx wouldnt be taken for 7-10 year unless it was wanted, its there to add value. A break from oryx would happen at year 4 or 5 to let younger oryx reach maturity. As it stands there is a maturity gap of about 3 yrs in the herd. There are other exotics on the ranch as well that would be on the table. I do think wt will always be the main item on a hunters year in year out list, especially here in tx.

I do see the validity and concern mixing family and hunters, hence the contractual recourse and stiff penalties would be implemented to both parties for breaking contractual stipulations.

I guess im being on the side of overly optimistic of the scenario. What i envision is a out of the box situation. Where lessees who dont have the means or desire to go buy their own acreage and invest in improving genetics could form a partnership with an individual that has acreage and wants to achieve like results.

Thank you fellas, Yall bring up some very good points and major obstacles from the other side of the table with objectivity.
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South Texas Trophy Outfitters

Contact #: 210-837-6742
GEORGE.SAKAI@YAHOO.COM

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#5993530 - 10/25/15 02:24 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I would not lease it for long term the first year, but more of a year to year to feel each other out and to iron on details of what will work like posted above. I would not think you will get the money you can for the long term lease with family involved in the hunting inside the HF. I have seen many deal and long term deal go south when family is allowed to hunt on the same lease as the lease hunters.
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#5993549 - 10/25/15 02:41 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
blackcoal Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 7568
Loc: 60 Mi North of DFW
^^^ Once again, Amen
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#5993686 - 10/25/15 04:15 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
jorge Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3944
Loc: Lake Jackson, TX
So yall think a $5k recourse clause is insufficient for an infraction of contract?
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Jorge Sakai
South Texas Trophy Outfitters

Contact #: 210-837-6742
GEORGE.SAKAI@YAHOO.COM

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#5993778 - 10/25/15 05:11 PM Re: yalls opinion of a long term lease idea for family ranch. [Re: jorge]
SnakeWrangler Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 20814
Loc: Fairfield, TX
Originally Posted By: jorge
So yall think a $5k recourse clause is insufficient for an infraction of contract?


1) I may have missed it but what annual price are you looking at....I would base it on some percentage of that.

2) I think this could be a good deal for the right people....finding the right people is gonna be the trick. You might even consider a "corporate" lease where a company can bring in high-end customers to relax/hunt....this would give you a situation where company executives can entertain and where the money might be better.....that would address the annual oryx issue....contracts should be more enforceable against a company vs. a group of individuals....something to think about..... 2cents
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