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#5981510 - 10/17/15 09:31 AM H110 vs Lil' Gun
wp75169 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Wills Point
I have been using H110 in my heavy for caliber magnum pistol loads since Kmon1 suggested it a few years ago and have been very pleased. A while back I purchased a super redhawk Alaskan in .454. For those who are not familiar with this pistol it has a 2.5" barrel. I have not been overly pleased with the H110 loads with the heaviest bullets at 395 grain. Loading the 360 grain bullet seems to perform better. After much research it has became clear that Lil' Gun performs much better in this short barrel scenario with the heavy bullets. Launching the 360gr bullet in the 1250-1300fps range.

Here's the problem. If I understand correctly Lil' Gun produces much more actual heat and causes flame cutting on the top strap and damages the forcing cone on magnum loads. Freedom Arms says the use of Lil' Gun in their .454 can damage the pistol in as few as 50 rounds.

Why would Hodgdon continue to advertise these loads if this is true? Any input on this subject is appreciated. Anyone have a bad experience with one powder or the other? Anyone loading a short barrel magnum?

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#5982295 - 10/18/15 05:25 AM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
GasGuzzler Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 1639
Loc: Cooke County, Texas
What were your H110 loads?

I have no experience in loading for a short fat gun like that but....

Not sure what H110 load you used but I bet you know H110 doesn't like to be down-loaded (loaded light). If memory serves, it's not recommended to run more than 3-5% under with H110. Yes, 360-400 grainers are big bullets but you'll need a lot of H110 to make it go. I would have to ASSume 23-24 grains?

Online data shows a 180 FPS difference in 21 vs 24 grains of H110 but a pressure difference of 19600 CUP!!! To me this means you have to find the sweet spot.

I haven't heard many people that prefer LG over H110.

Hodgden's data for a 360 in .454 with LG is out of a 9 3/8" barrel....a much different animal than you have.
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#5982309 - 10/18/15 06:29 AM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
wp75169 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Wills Point
I am running 24 grains with the 360 grain bullet. That's hodgdons max with that bullet. I do know H110 does not do well with decreased loads. The same bullet seems to perform well n the 45 colt case with 21gr of H110. I'm getting no pressure signs on the 454 and flat primers on the 45 colt. But that is pistol primers vs rifle primers.

I'm going to run both loads across the chrony tomorrow.

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#5982851 - 10/18/15 04:21 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
GasGuzzler Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 1639
Loc: Cooke County, Texas
May need a slightly faster powder with such a short barrel. Maybe the chrono will tell the story. Obviously H110/W296 is great in the .357 and .44 but like I said before youre combination is a little different than most. I know well experienced loaders use H110 by volume in the magnum pistols. You do have a Ruger and load information is a guide.... banana2
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#5983151 - 10/18/15 08:08 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 612
Loc: Midland TX.
395 gr bullets might be to long to stabilize with 1-24" twist at the velocity obtained in the short barrel. If you already have Lil Gun give it a try. I've only used it in the 22 K Hornet. I've had success with 296-H110 and MP 300 in heavy 45 Colt loads in a 5 1/2" Ruger.
Let us know what the chrono says.
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#5984218 - 10/19/15 03:28 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
wp75169 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Wills Point
Did not have any 395s loaded today. Data from 360g CPB WNFP

45 Colt 21 grains of H110 939, 927, 925

454 24 grains H110 944, 947, 978

The Colt results are as expected but the casull shows a lack of needed pressure in my opinion.

I'm going to stay away from the LG for now and work some more with the H110 in the 454. I'm very happy with the colt results.

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#5984569 - 10/19/15 07:25 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 612
Loc: Midland TX.
296-H110 gets happy at 95-100 percent fill to base of bullet. What primers are you using?
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#5984599 - 10/19/15 07:39 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
wp75169 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Wills Point
Winchester small rifle. I need to send the pistol back to Ruger. It will not strike CCI magnum primers hard enough to consistently ignite them. Ruger has a recall on it. I just hate to turn it loose.

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#5984627 - 10/19/15 07:54 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 612
Loc: Midland TX.
You might check the hammer, might need to take a bit off the top where it contacts the frame. Factory hammer spring?
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#5984681 - 10/19/15 08:20 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: okie44]
wp75169 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 3871
Loc: Wills Point
Originally Posted By: okie44
You might check the hammer, might need to take a bit off the top where it contacts the frame. Factory hammer spring?


I have took down the top of the hammer to put more pressure on the transfer bar and have put a factory spring in it. According to the recall the firing pin needs to be replaced. I took it to a local smith and all he succeded in doing was scratching up the polished finish. Mine is one of the few offered one year in polished stainless.

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#5984726 - 10/19/15 08:38 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
kmon1 Offline
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20287
Loc: Texas
Got this tip from Frank Smith when I got the 357Max Ruger, for magnum loads without nearly the issue of flame cutting the top strap use an extruded powder instead of ball powder. No issue with flame cutting of the top strap using Accurate 5744. Do not quite get the velocity as with Lil-Gun or H110 but on that one will forgo a little velocity and save the pistol.
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#5984879 - 10/19/15 09:38 PM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: wp75169]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 612
Loc: Midland TX.
Sounds like you have done all you can without a new firing pin.
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#5985137 - 10/20/15 05:51 AM Re: H110 vs Lil' Gun [Re: okie44]
GasGuzzler Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 1639
Loc: Cooke County, Texas
Originally Posted By: okie44
296-H110 gets happy at 95-100 percent fill to base of bullet.


There's another vote besides mine.

Add the ability to use magnum primers (after recall) and you may have it fixed.
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