If I shoot at a 2" circle @ 200 yards, I am shooting at an imaginary spot in the center of that circle. In order to hit within the circle I have to hit within 1" of that imaginary dot (1/2 moa @ 200 yds). Does that mean that a target for 1 moa @ 200 yds. would need to have a 4" diameter? I am not talking about the size of a group, I'm talking about the poi being within 1 moa of the poa...

Think you are overthinking it, I got a little confused reading your explanation. Where think people get confused is MOA is a measurement just like inches is they are not really the same thing. So 1MOA at 200 yards is 2 inches. So if you have a 2" bull and 3 bullets evenly spaced around the edge of the circle all where the center of the bullet hole bisected the tangent of the outer circle. that would be a 1 MOA group. If it was the 3inches in diameter that would be a 1.5MOA

Did I answer your question or make it more confusing

You kind of lost me there. 1 moa at 200 yards is 2.094" (1.047" x 2). 2 moa at 200 yards is 4.188" (1.047" x (2x2)) So, if you want to hit within 1 moa error factor on 1 moa target (at 200 yards), then you will need a 2 moa plate (4.188" inches).

If you have a 3" plate at 200 yards, that is close to a 1.5 moa target, which would give you 3/4" cushion from dead center.

I'm not sure that I understand your question. A 1 MOA circular target for use at 200 yards might simply be a 2.1" circle. A circular target where your point of aim is at the center and your maximum impact difference from the center is 1 MOA is a 2 MOA target, or 4.2" at 200 yards.

If your trying to hit a two inch circle at 200 yds you should be able to do it with a 1 MOA rifle if you have zero error in the point of aim. You said an imaginary point in the center of the circle which tells me that you don't have a precise aiming point which induces POA error. A switch to diamond targets, where the crosshairs can be held consistently point to point, will help immensely. In the end you will likely have some POA error so you might not quite see, MOA accuracy, even if the rifle is capable.

BTW- the hardest target on Jason's range is the 1 moa plate at 200 yards!!! (2" steel)

I was trying to explain there is difference between being able to hit within 1 moa of what you are aiming at, and shooting a 1 moa group. To hit a 2" circle at 200 yds. you have to hit within 1/2 moa of where you aimed because from your point of aim, it is only 1" to the edge of the circle. (my original math was wrong on the 3" circle, it should have read 4")

maybe start at the beginning.... A minute of angle is an angular measurement... Imagine a cone going out from the muzzle out to the target... As you go farther the cone naturally gets bigger. In a gun that shoots 1 moa none of the bullets leave that cone in flight. The angle of the cone is 1 minute of angle, DISTANCE IS Irrelevant. If you placed a target in the path of the cone then the diameter of the circle would the distance that is 1 MOA...

It is ROUGHLY. 1 at 100, 2 at 200, 3 at 300.... http://nssf.org/video/facts/MOA.cfm

I keep rereading the message you wrote, and still cant figure out where your going....

....WHY ARE YOU ADDING INCHES LOL... 1 moa at 200 yards is a 2 inch plate...

You can hit anywhere on that plate yes if you have .5 moa wiggle in any direction...

Essentially, yes. 1/2 + 1/2 = 1

Now, if you are shooting a 308 bullet, you can add a little extra to that!! You'd be amazed how many points have been won/lost on a paper target due to a small or bigger bullet hole in competition.

Often, there is a KYL (Know your limits) stage on paper at 100 yards in a lot of competitions. There is a 1" dot (1 point), 3/4" dot (2 points), 1/2" dot (3 points), and a 1/4" dot (4 points). If you hit the 1" dot, you get 1 point and have the option to go to the next dot. If you shoot the 3/4" dot, you now have 3 points (1 + 2), and you have the option to go for the third dot. If you go for it and miss, you zero out your score, and walk away with 0 points (know your limits).

If you think about this KYL stage the same way you are thinking about your 200 yard steel, it's the same how I look at it for a KYL stage. I am shooting my 6.5x47 Lapua (.264" bullet) at a .25" dot. All I need to do is touch the dot, so I have to be able to shoot a .389" group (center to center) to make this shot. I have gone for this 1/4" dot many times, and most times I will drill it. There have been a few times I have missed. But 99% of the time I go for it, I have center punched the other 3, and I know where the bullet is going before I pull the trigger. If I am shooting a .308" bullet, all I need is a .433" group, and this increases my chances of hitting it even more.

"You kind of lost me there. 1 moa at 200 yards is 2.094" (1.047" x 2). 2 moa at 200 yards is 4.188" (1.047" x (2x2)) So, if you want to hit within 1 moa error factor on 1 moa target (at 200 yards), then you will need a 2 moa plate (4.188" inches)." Chad's answer is what I was wondering about. Hitting within 1 moa error factor is different from grouping within 1 moa. In my opinion the error factor is important in a hunting rifle setup.

I don't see what your getting at???
If you have a gun that's under 1 moa consistently, and a scope that holds zero... Just practice on a 1 moa plate if that is what you deem acceptable. by definition Then Your error will be far less than 1 moa if you print on a 1 moa plate? Aim small miss small

Your way over thinking this... a one moa "error factor" means your accepting a group that is up to 2 moa... I wont keep a gun that wont shoot 1 inch, (except for granddads old rifle that I don't shoot)

Diameter or radius, pick one.

If you have a 1 MOA rifle, then you can hit within a 2" diameter (and height) at 200 yards. That is the definition of a 1 MOA rifle. Don't make a simple thing difficult.

I will say this........at least 80% of the people that claim they can shoot MOA cant really do it. They may have done it once at some point in their life but a huge majority of people cant do it on a regular basis. Maybe some people don't know what MOA is or maybe some people don't have a grasp on how small an inch really is but it aint as easy as some people on this forum make it sound.


And just for the record that opinion is not aimed at any one person. Just an observation after reading this forum for years.

Hermano, are you a benchrest shooter or a hunter?? The point is, what difference does it make unless you are a died-in-the -wool benchrest guy. If you are a hunter, 1" m.o.a. is meaningless unless you are trying to neck shoot a deer at over 200 yards. If you are a bencrest shooter..show us a target>

1 MOA is not meaningless for a hunter. If the rifle consistenly shoots 2" at 100 yards with no error from the shooter, then the shooter is limited to a certain distance due to his equipment, for deer that may be 300 yards, for coyotes that may be 200 yards. If the equipment and shooter can consistently maintain sub-MOA then the shooter and equipment is only limited by the ability of the shooter to judge and correct for wind, and the foot pounds of energy delivered at a given distance.

Accuracy always matters, no matter the discipline.

Off of the bags, my .223 will consistently put five rounds into one inch at 100 yards.

Today when I installed a Harris bipod, it suddenly became a 2 MOA shooter.

Click image to see it larger.


I hate to think about how many MOA it would shoot into if I got up on my hind legs and tried shooting that thing.

I'm guessing that the bipod will work out better if I'm prone. Off of the bench, the bipod just can't compare with the shooting bags.

Charles, if groups open up with a bipod, that means there's an issue with the bedding and/or mating of the action to the stock. I see this often with factory hunting rifles that are unbedded. For this reason, I test all unbedded rifles on bags and no bipod.

"Hermano, are you a benchrest shooter or a hunter??" To answer that question, I just love to shoot, and I love to hit what I shoot at. I normally kill a couple of deer per year, but shoot at targets several times a week. I shoot at a 2" circle at 200 yards and a 1" circle at 100 yds. On a good day I put all the shots in the circles, but I have bad days too. I agree that accuracy matters no matter what the discipline.

As usual, Jason is right. MOA is typically talked about in terms of diameter. You're trying to use it as a radius. Don't try to make easy things hard.

Yes, if you're trying to hit within 1" of the target, that's 1 MOA in terms of distance @ 200 yards. But that's a 2 MOA group.