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When is a barrel 'shot out'?
#5956024
10/01/15 03:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,102
Bbear
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In the mid-80's I picked up a 700 BDL in 25-06 from a pawn shop for under $200. No idea of the round count. Since then, I have put more than 2000 rounds down the barrel.
In playing with some new powder (RL 26), I, once again, found a load that prints 5 inside of 1" at 100. I then ran 9 more rounds over the magnetospeed and came up with this:
Series 1 Shots: 9 Min 2611 Max 2676 Avg 2634 S-D 24.5 ES 65 Series Shot Speed 1 1 2676 ft/s 1 2 2636 ft/s 1 3 2620 ft/s 1 4 2623 ft/s 1 5 2616 ft/s 1 6 2615 ft/s 1 7 2673 ft/s 1 8 2638 ft/s 1 9 2611 ft/s
I have been chasing the lands for the past few years. My COALTL is now 3.37-3.39 depending upon the bullet.
I have always heard that a barrel was 'shot out' when accuracy diminishes but mine never has. But seeing a load that should be in the upper 2900's - 3100's show a 400 fps lower velocity makes me think this barrel has seen it's better days and should be replaced. What say you? What makes a barrel on a hunting rifle (rather than a target rifle) 'shot out'?
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Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956030
10/01/15 04:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424
jeffbird
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Accuracy is the measure.
If you want more velocity, try a different load.
If you just want a new barrel, get one - lots of good ones are made every day.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: jeffbird]
#5956038
10/01/15 04:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 460
VAFish
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Bird Dog
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Accuracy is the measure.
If you want more velocity, try a different load.
If you just want a new barrel, get one - lots of good ones are made every day. I have to agree. Try some other loads. I rarely get claimed velocities in my loads. Although 400 fps is a lot.
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees. If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children." -- Confucius
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956049
10/01/15 04:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,102
Bbear
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My RL 19 load is in the same ballpark with a 110 gr AB. IMR4831 w/ 110 AB or with the 117 SGK both showed in the 2600-2750 range. H4350 is 2700 with the AB in one rifle and 3075-3100 in another - same caliber, same barrel length, same type action
Last edited by Bbear; 10/01/15 04:12 PM.
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Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956053
10/01/15 04:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Every barrel I have shot out has had 2 things happen, as well as other shooters I have talked to-
1- accuracy begins to or fads away. Groups open up. You will also see fliers happen. When my 300 WM went south, I was shooting a 700 yard target, and I missed by about 8 feet. The next few rounds were near the target, but you get unexplained fliers.
2- Your speed decreases. I was on the same powder lot for my 260 Rem, and that load ran 2800+ fps. It began to drop into the 2730's with the same loads and powder lot. I ran a bore scope through it, and the fire cracking was about 8" from the chamber. The first 3" was severe, and had chunks of barrel missing in many areas. Groups opened up with fliers, also. It had 2600 rounds on it, then set the barrel back by 3", and kept it 260 Rem. The accuracy improved, but it only lasted about 400-500 more rounds. And the accuracy was never as good as a new barrel. It would shoot a clover leaf group at 100 yards, where it used to shoot same hole. I will never set a barrel back again.
Shooting 1 moa can still be possible on a shot out barrel. But you will get fliers mixed in. If you run a bore scope down it, you can see if you have severe fire cracking. Fire cracking is 100% normal. It's the severe cracking with chunks of barrel missing, that will clue you in to the condition.
What powder charge are you running, what bullet, and barrel length?
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956063
10/01/15 04:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,645
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I wouldn't think a 'shot out' barrel would result in a loss of muzzle velocity (or not much). I always thought that a barrel that was shot out started opening up groups no matter what you tried. I would suggest getting a couple of rounds, maybe factory, that you should have a good idea of MV and see how those chronograph. Also, you could have the gun bore-scoped if you suspect there is an issue.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5956161
10/01/15 05:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,083
Branden
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Every barrel I have shot out has had 2 things happen, as well as other shooters I have talked to-
1- accuracy begins to or fads away. Groups open up. You will also see fliers happen. When my 300 WM went south, I was shooting a 700 yard target, and I missed by about 8 feet. The next few rounds were near the target, but you get unexplained fliers.
2- Your speed decreases. I was on the same powder lot for my 260 Rem, and that load ran 2800+ fps. It began to drop into the 2730's with the same loads and powder lot. I ran a bore scope through it, and the fire cracking was about 8" from the chamber. The first 3" was severe, and had chunks of barrel missing in many areas. Groups opened up with fliers, also. It had 2600 rounds on it, then set the barrel back by 3", and kept it 260 Rem. The accuracy improved, but it only lasted about 400-500 more rounds. And the accuracy was never as good as a new barrel. It would shoot a clover leaf group at 100 yards, where it used to shoot same hole. I will never set a barrel back again.
Shooting 1 moa can still be possible on a shot out barrel. But you will get fliers mixed in. If you run a bore scope down it, you can see if you have severe fire cracking. Fire cracking is 100% normal. It's the severe cracking with chunks of barrel missing, that will clue you in to the condition.
What powder charge are you running, what bullet, and barrel length? +1 Chad hit right on what I have ran across and others I have talked to.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956213
10/01/15 06:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,102
Bbear
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50gr RL 26. 117 SGK 22" factory barrel.
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Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956318
10/01/15 07:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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When I run 50 grains of R26 with a 117 grain SGK in QuickLoad, I get a velocity of 2638 fps, and an 82% case fill. Looking at this data, your speeds are right on track with what I'm seeing. Plus, R26 is between burn rates of R22 and R33, so it's slower burning than R22. I'm showing about a max charge of R22 of around 56 grains with a 117 grain bullet. Since R26 is slower burning, it will have a higher charge weight than R22. QuickLoad shows a max charge of ~59 grains of R26 with the 117 Sierra SGK. I know Alliant's website shows R26 at 49 and 51 grains, which makes no sense to me. So, I believe your results and my calculations to be really close to actual results. I would keep going up in charge weight with R26 to get your speeds up. I do know this, you will be above 55-56 grains to get over 3K fps.
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956682
10/01/15 10:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 735
bull279
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In the Army, our rifles would see 20-40,000 rounds easily without serious degradation of accuracy. After 20 or 30,000 rounds (can't remember for sure which one it was, it has been while) the barrels get gauged by the armorer to verify the barrel diameter is still within specs. You can have your barrel gauged to see if it still falls within the acceptable limits. 2-3,000 rounds through a rifle shouldn't be that bad.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
U.S. Army Military Police (ABN) 1998-2003
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956796
10/02/15 12:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956812
10/02/15 12:32 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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What velocity are you getting from your old loads, these are new loads so there is an unknown. Agree with Chad at least from quickload data your velocities are pretty much what it predicts.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5956958
10/02/15 02:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 632
505ed
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QPQ your barrel, and you will not have to worry about it....;)
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5957040
10/02/15 02:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,919
maximum
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In the mid-80's I picked up a 700 BDL in 25-06 from a pawn shop for under $200. No idea of the round count. Since then, I have put more than 2000 rounds down the barrel. . . .
In playing with some new powder (RL 26), I, once again, found a load that prints 5 inside of 1" at 100. . . .
I have always heard that a barrel was 'shot out' when accuracy diminishes but mine never has. . . . so. . . . . .what's the problem ?. . . . .
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5957079
10/02/15 03:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Regular Guy
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
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When you have the spare cash to justify having some fancy work done to your favorite shooter, i'd say the barrel is probably close enough
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Re: When is a barrel 'shot out'?
[Re: Bbear]
#5957098
10/02/15 03:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,102
Bbear
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I'll keep running the charge up. Really didn't want to have to get another barrel but as Chad noted, the 'max' from Aliant was where I was. I have a load with RL19 that is near max and punches it out around 2900 but it's rather difficult to shoot with the temps in the 90's as I get extractor marks and tight bolt lift when it's above about 80 or so. Hence the chase for another load that isn't as temp sensitive. In cooler weather, the RL 19 load was around 2900. Never shot more than 2 of them when it was warm. Chad, thanks for running the QL program for me. Saved me about $700 bucks! Guess I'll have to place an order for some reloads !
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Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
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