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#5937590 - 09/20/15 03:39 PM 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund...
ckat Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Lubbock Area
The dang wind finally let up enough to try some loads in the new-to-me Creedmoor - still had a 10-15 MPH wind from 4 o'clock. Ruger Hawkeye, 26" barrel, Leupold VX-III 3.5-10x40mm. I floated the barrel and put in some false beds to see how it might react to a bedding job.

Speeds were not quite what I was hoping for, but they will work with this accuracy. Velocities leveled out at 2800 FPS at the jump from 43.3 to 43.7 grains of IMR 4350, telling me I was reaching max pressures (even though I had no other signs: sticky bolt, etc.) The velocities also became erratic as I hit those top charges.

This load was 42.9 grains behind a Berger 130gr VLD Hunting. 2741 FPS Average, 17 ES, 7 SD. This was only 3-shots. I got scared of screwing up this group, so I sent the 4th shot down to the 350 yard gong. 0.139" CTC. I hope to get my hands on some H4350 and try it - I've had 16 lbs. on order since Jan. 2013. Until then, the IMR will work.




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#5937905 - 09/20/15 06:57 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
Big Fitz Offline
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Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2001
Loc: McKinney, TX
Very nice!
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#5937917 - 09/20/15 07:06 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
Elkhunter49 Offline
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Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 3245
Loc: Oak Harbor, Slidell La
Great looking group. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a great round that will produce some unreal tight groups if the shooter is capable. I Love mine and it will outshoot me. Well Done, Baker
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#5937980 - 09/20/15 07:37 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
130 gr making 2741 fps MV out of a 26" is barrel is not what I was expecting either, about 160 fps less than I expected. But I'm used to H-4350 so I don't know what the speed difference is between H and IMR. Maybe someone can chime in on that.

In any case the rifle clearly likes that load, and I would run with it! Great shooting!
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#5938135 - 09/20/15 08:37 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
slayer12 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 942
Loc: Whitney, Tx
I'm with Fireman it would be hard for me to switch loads.

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#5938156 - 09/20/15 08:47 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Even though 42.9 grains with a 130 is a medium load with room to get it faster, that's a freakin' awesome group! You can always come back to that load. But you can get up into the 2900 fps easily with a 130, and it still shoot just as good, especially with a 26" barrel.

Originally Posted By: ckat
Velocities leveled out at 2800 FPS at the jump from 43.3 to 43.7 grains of IMR 4350, telling me I was reaching max pressures (even though I had no other signs: sticky bolt, etc.) The velocities also became erratic as I hit those top charges.


What do you mean you reached max, but had no pressure signs? Normally, your extreme spread will go up when you get out of your accuracy node and come back down when you find it again. Normally, your next accuracy node is about ~1.5 grain up from the last node. So, if 42.9 is good, about 44.4 would be the next. When I ran a 130 VLD, my load was either 44.2 or 44.5, I can't remember, but it was in the 44's with a 130 VLD. Try going up even more while watching for your sticky bolt and extractor marks, and you may have your cake and eat it too (accuracy and good speed!). Just a thought!
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#5938221 - 09/20/15 09:10 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
He's on a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a .260 Chad.

Were you running 44.0+ of H-4350 in a .260 Rem with a 130 VLD? I think I was around the same charge with that bullet, powder and .260 Rem.

I also have .8 gr less H-4350 in a 6.5 Creedmoor pushing a 140 A-max making the exact same MV the .260 Rem was.

What's the diff in burn rate of IMR 4350 and H-4350?
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#5938262 - 09/20/15 09:29 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
True. Knock off about .3 to .5 grains for the Creedmoor. But it should be really close to the 260 speeds.
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#5938389 - 09/20/15 10:39 PM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ChadTRG42]
ckat Offline
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Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
... What do you mean you reached max, but had no pressure signs? ...


Well, I guess I was premature on my assumption. I thought that my last 2 charges where both right at 2800 FPS - My pressure sign would be the increase in powder charge showing no appreciable increase in velocity. But looking at my notes, the velocity average was still going up... though not at the same rate increase per powder increase.

I gave up on reading primers long ago, I feel that they are very unpredictable and not a good gauge of pressure. I typically look for sticky bolt lift and ejector swipes. Here are my notes:

42.5 - 2707 Avg, 6 ES, 3 SD, So-So group, vertical stringing
42.9 - 2741 Avg, 17 ES, 7 SD, Good group
43.3 - 2786 Avg, 29 ES, 12 SD, Decent group
43.7 - 2803 Avg, 47 ES, 21 SD, decent group, vertical stringing

What says the THF??? Try 44.1 and 44.4 watching for sticky bolts and ejector swipes while hoping to shrink ES and SD from the 43.7 numbers? Honestly, all groups were acceptable except for the 42.5 group... which had the best numbers on paper. In that group's defense, it was on a freshly scrubbed barrel...

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#5938557 - 09/21/15 07:09 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Don't clean the barrel.
Step in .3 gr increments instead of .4 gr. On a short action, stepping in .4 gr may make you skip over a good charge(s). Step a short action in .3 and a long action in .4

Try 44.0, 44.3, 44.6
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#5938627 - 09/21/15 08:19 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Yes, I also do not look at primers for pressure signs (except for the obvious signs). Keep going up, and you will find speed and accuracy, if you want. Notice how your 42.5 had vertical stringing, and then 42.9 was the sweet spot. Since 43.7 is stringing, I think you may see the sweet spot come back shortly after the 43.7 charge. That would put it about 44.1 or a little higher, so play around in that area.
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#5938751 - 09/21/15 09:18 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
Big Fitz Offline
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Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2001
Loc: McKinney, TX
Hey, I am learning something from you folks! Based on ckat's data, I too was thinking he was approaching another accuracy node beyond 43.7 as it was stringing as compared to the 2 previous loads. Thanks Chad and Jason for the ongoing education and good to know these nodes are approx. 1.5 gr apart on the Creedmore.

Great shooting again, ckat!
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink

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#5938770 - 09/21/15 09:25 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: FiremanJG]
ckat Offline
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Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Don't clean the barrel.
Step in .3 gr increments instead of .4 gr. On a short action, stepping in .4 gr may make you skip over a good charge(s). Step a short action in .3 and a long action in .4

Try 44.0, 44.3, 44.6


I usually don't clean until accuracy fades, but this was a used rifle with unknown round count, so I wanted to start fresh. Hoping that my starting loads would not be my go-to, I intended on those rounds being my foulers.

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#5938781 - 09/21/15 09:31 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ChadTRG42]
ckat Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1069
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Yes, I also do not look at primers for pressure signs (except for the obvious signs). Keep going up, and you will find speed and accuracy, if you want. Notice how your 42.5 had vertical stringing, and then 42.9 was the sweet spot. Since 43.7 is stringing, I think you may see the sweet spot come back shortly after the 43.7 charge. That would put it about 44.1 or a little higher, so play around in that area.


I'll keep working up, then. 2900 FPS was my target speed when starting development. I also have some 140 A-Maxes that I shoot in my 6.5x55 that I could try. I don't shoot a whole lot, so barrel life isn't a major concern; thus, the decision to try the 130s. Thanks again for the help from all!!! I will advise...

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#5938794 - 09/21/15 09:36 AM Re: 6.5 Creedmoor - Maybe I should ask for a refund... [Re: ckat]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The 130's are great. I liked them a lot, even better than the 140 VLD's. But the barrel life is significantly reduced, so I'm sticking with the 140 VLD-H's. I bought 12,000+ of them. The lot that I have has shot some very tiny groups with multiple rifles.
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