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#5931615 - 09/16/15 01:23 PM Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development!
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9413
Loc: Lewisville, TX
9/15/15
2 more custom load developments on a 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284 Norma, both shooting 140 grain Berger VLD-H at 200 yards, same target.

Load D shot best on both rifles. Both rifles were shot on the same target at 200 yards. 6.5 CM on the top half of the target, and 6.5-284 on the bottom half of the target.

6.5 CM 140 VLD-H (top half of target)
Load A- shot in the lower middle- 2661 fps avg with 15 fps ES (Extreme spread). running a little slow, and stringing up and down
Load B- Low left, 2680 fps, 43 ES, groups a little open
Load C- Top left on shoot N See, 2709 fps, 27 ES, still a little open
Load D- Top center- 2727 fps and 17 ES!!! This is it. The load dialed in nice and tight (except the one I pulled, which I don't want to talk about!!!), with a low ES.
Load E- Top right, 2741 fps, 17 ES, the group opens up some and strings, telling me I have passed my sweet spot.

Load D is right at 3/4" (inch) at 200 yards!! The speeds on this round are a little slow right now on this rifle. The barrel is brand new and I shot some barrel break in rounds with it. Most of your custom barrels will take about 100 to 150 rounds to get "seasoned" in and will pick up speed after this time. I gained 120 fps on my 260 Rem (28" barrel), and I have gained 65 fps on my current 6.5x47 Lapua (23" barrel) that has about 300 rounds down it now. This is very common.

6.5-284 Norma with 140 Berger VLD-H (lower half of target)
Load A- middle- 2790 fps, groups stringing up and down
Load B- Top left- 2796 fps 20 ES, groups stringing up and down and I only shot 3 rounds, since I knew this was not going to be the best load.
Load C- Bottom left, 2835 fps, 17 ES, groups tightening up, but still stringing, and getting closer to the right load.
Load D- Top right group, 2866 fps, 10 ES, That's 4 rounds in the same hole at 200 yards!!! The 5th round, I tried to WILL it in, and I f'd it up.
Load E- Bottom right, 2880 fps, 43 ES, groups string again, telling me I passed the accuracy node, and my ES went way up.

Load D is just under 1/2" (inch) at 200 yards for the 6.5-284! That's 1/4 moa accuracy! Looking at the data on both rifles, when you look at the accuracy node, your extreme spread (ES) goes down. When shooting all the loads with a quality chronograph (Lab Radar), you are able to see what the rifle and loads are telling you by seeing the low and high ES numbers. The 6.5-284 is a perfect example. We had 20 ES, then 17, then 10 ES for the sweet spot, and then 43 ES for Load E. This is a perfect example why a chronograph is a very usefull tool when dialing in a load for a rifle. And now, you can zero the scope turrets, and run these numbers through a ballistics program, and have perfect drop data for this round.

I think the rifle owners' will be very pleased!

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www.DallasReloads.com
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#5931645 - 09/16/15 01:47 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6465
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Chad, how do you shoot your tests?
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#5931671 - 09/16/15 02:10 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9413
Loc: Lewisville, TX
I increase the powder charge slightly with each group. I research which powder will work best with the bullet I am shooting, and the barrel length of the rifle, and I find where the max loads are with that combination. For the 6.5 CM above, it's an easy pick of H4350 with a 140 VLD. I know from shooting many of the Creedmoor's where I need to be with the bullet seating depth and the powder charge. Then, it's just finding what the rifle likes. I start a little low in case I run into pressure early, and work up. I try to plan for my Load C, D, or E to be the sweet spot. A lot of these loads shoot ok during load work up. But you can easily see a difference when you dial in the ammunition to the rifle. The groups tighten up and the extreme spreads go way down. This is I am looking for to get the top accuracy and consistency in the ammunition. One of these days I want to work up a load using the only the chronograph!!

Long story boring- I recently did another 6.5 CM running the 140 Hybrids. The load shot sub 1/2 moa for me, and was a good load work up. About a month later I got a text with a picture and a phone call right after that. He sent me a picture of his 3.5" group at 1000 yards! This load shot very well for him. The factory Hornady ammo would group more open and string vertically (due to the much higher extreme spreads of the factory ammo). The factory Hornady ammo is, honestly, decent ammo at a good price. I can't sell it for less than they do. But when you want the best and the most consistent ammunition, there is a difference. Most shooters may not see this difference. But it IS a noticeable improvement in accuracy and consistency when you get a rifle dialed in and shooting tiny groups!
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www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#5931681 - 09/16/15 02:21 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6465
Loc: Lubbock, TX
When the groups start to get really close to each other, what makes the difference? How do you remove or control external factors so that you know THIS is the one?

Can't wait to get my .308 to you for some development-STILL getting it all together. sick
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#5931722 - 09/16/15 02:38 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9413
Loc: Lewisville, TX
On the external factors, I try to pay attention to the wind and not send the round when the wind kicks up. I try to shoot on the same condition on each shot. I'll shoot a group in about 1.5 to 2 minutes time. If the wind picks up during the group, I'll hold off on shooting the next round til my condition comes back. Also, I am shooting these at 200 yards right now because of the heat. I prefer to test these at 300 yards. When shooting at 300 during the summer, you get mirage boiling up in front of the target. This makes the small diamonds move and dance in the mirage. You can't shoot a tiny group with a refracting target like that, so I bring it back to 200 yards for a clear sight picture. 100 yards is too close, IMO. I can't get a reading on what the loads are telling me on these precision rifles. That 6.5-284 would be the same hole on Load D at 100, and the stringing of the other groups would be harder to read at 100.

Also, I like the load development to have, what I call, a "text book load work up." Meaning, I like to see the groups open, stringing, then tighten up. This tells me the rifle "system" is really good. You can see how the groups open, string, then tighten up on the picture above. What I mean by system, is the barreled action is put together correctly, and it is bedded and mated up with the stock correctly. You can have a top notch rifle (barreled action) built by the best gunsmith around. But if you put it in a stock that makes contact with the barrel and has pressure points, you will get no consistency in the grouping. I am dealing with a rifle just like this right now!

I'm not sure what you are asking on the first question "When the groups start to get really close to each other, what makes the difference?"
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www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#5931806 - 09/16/15 03:35 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23393
Loc: Texas
I think he is asking if your shooting out of a sled, bench and bags, bipod etc.
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#5931886 - 09/16/15 04:42 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: redchevy]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6465
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I think he is asking if your shooting out of a sled, bench and bags, bipod etc.


That too, but I really enjoyed reading those posts. Thanks, Chad!
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#5931910 - 09/16/15 04:56 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9413
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Oh, ok. On both of these rifles, I shot them off a sandbagged front rest, and rear sand bag. I put some sandbags on top of my range bag for the front. Rear was typical sandbag. The 65 CM had an Atlas rail up front, and I left the bipod at the shop. The 6.5-284 had a very tall Harris on it, so I took it off to lower the rifle down where I needed it. I shoot everything prone. I'll take a picture next time I am at the range to show my typical set up.

I highly do NOT recommend a lead sled. The recoil impulse changes from a fixed shooting rest to your shoulder. Groups can be influenced by this, as well as a POI shift. I know some use them with success. But, they are not for me or what I need to accomplish. I try to zero the rifle at the same time I am shooting the loads. So, I need to shoot it straight up.
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www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#5932720 - 09/17/15 07:11 AM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23393
Loc: Texas
The groups some of yal achieve at distance boggles my mind. Someday... maybe
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#5933282 - 09/17/15 01:23 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: ChadTRG42]
Branden Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 1038
Loc: Aledo, Tx
Are you getting those groups out of the 6.5-284 with H4350? I never could get H4350 to get that tight at 200 had to swap over to Retumbo 58.2g to get my groups that tight.

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#5933342 - 09/17/15 02:14 PM Re: Latest- 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5-284, custom load development! [Re: Branden]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9413
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: Branden
Are you getting those groups out of the 6.5-284 with H4350? I never could get H4350 to get that tight at 200 had to swap over to Retumbo 58.2g to get my groups that tight.

I will say this, you are on the right track!!! I see a lot of loads with 4350 and 4831. But I never could get decent groups, or even much speed with those powders.
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www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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