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#5919842 - 09/09/15 09:59 AM Teach me Woah Breaking
Baylor_Bears Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 1046
Loc: Austin
Alright fellas, Amos is coming along like a real champ. Took him to the farm this weekend to get him on some planted pigeons for the first time and I was super super pleased with how he did. Seemed to have a good nose, and was locking up rather well on scent. Obviously he wasn't totally steady, holding point for various lengths before creeping in. He is 9 months old now, and I want to start the woah breaking process. Those that have pointing dogs wanna give me the basics? At the moment we dont have daily access to a bird field, and have been doing most of our work at a pasture turned soccer field.
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#5919939 - 09/09/15 10:46 AM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond


All bird dogs point. The breaking process teaches them to hold point. There are two ways to teach a dog to hold point, with dozens of variations. The first way is to let the birds train the pups. That generally involves launchers and pigeons, with some whoa breaking mixed in. It's very effective. I use the Delmar Smith method, substituting the e-collar for the bump under the chin. My dogs are completely whoa broke before I put them on birds. I use pen raised quail, because I can be done with them for the summer. I like to start in August, and finish in time for hunting season.

I start off on the whoa post. I introduce the e-collar the same day, that I introduce the whos post. Here's cracker on her first day with the whoa post;



I keep them on the whoa post only until I can get out in front of them, and then go to the yard for heel and whoa. Cracker tended to sit, so I had to start with the suitcase hitch. I go from the yard to longer walks. The pup has pretty well gotten it down after three weeks.



I then go from the walks to whoa in the field. Here's Cracker in the field in the field, before I put her on birds. This whole process has taken me around four weeks.



This is her first day on birds. I train alone, so I had to plant the bird, where I could wrap the CC around a bush. Notice the slack CC.



I kept her on the CC for three training days. She only went around on the bird one time. Here she is after 9 training flushes.




I started walking some of the birds out after a few days. Here you go;




A little side note. My birds were not recalling all that well, so I used Cookie to point them while I netted them;



A lot depends on the pup, and you have to adjust for each pup. Cracker has never taken out a single pointed bird or covey.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5920115 - 09/09/15 11:55 AM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 803
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


Edited by NorthTXbirdhunter (09/09/15 11:56 AM)

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#5920231 - 09/09/15 01:00 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
You can start with just heel and whoa. I never whoa a young dog on birds. I simply nick them with the e-collier if they take a step. I think my method, and the Smith method would be better described as collar conditioned. A properly collar conditioned pup is essentially a broke dog within sight. I guess that I've nicked my pups over a hundred times before putting them back on birds.

You can also go the other route and let the birds teach them. That takes a launcher. I've never owned a launcher or had and pigeon broke dogs, but they do fine.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5921025 - 09/09/15 08:20 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
blanked Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1300
Loc: magnolia tx
Bill will your dog relocate on running birds on his own

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#5921610 - 09/10/15 07:05 AM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: blanked]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: blanked
Bill will your dog relocate on running birds on his own


Generally not. I don't let them most of the time.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5926841 - 09/13/15 05:21 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
tigger Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 4495
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Blank, Bill plays the NSTRA game and dogs cannot be allowed to creep or road birds but can be released to relocate when the game player cannot get the bird to flush.
_________________________
Tigger
If it isn't white it is not a birddog.

KC
Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy.
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#5927225 - 09/13/15 09:08 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


I saw another video with a trainer who used the spin move to keep the pup from taking steps, but the problem I had with that is that it was after the fact. My training days are over but I trust the e-collar. Some pups will tighten up on point when nicked.

Pete Thuman at Pecan Hill brought the variable e-collar to my art of Texas. He's the best I've seen.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5929505 - 09/15/15 10:13 AM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


A lot of these gimmicks work fine. A few rears ago barrel training was all the rage. The thing is, you can't take them wild bird hunting. Most dog never hunt without the e-collar. Even then, some have a difficult time changing over to wild birds.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5929838 - 09/15/15 01:46 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 803
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Bill, this is no gimmick. It works real well. Buddy has broke several dogs in the Birddog Hall of Fame and he has used this method on all of them. He even broke Shadow Oak Bo and he has won 2 national championships in the last 3 years. If this is gimmick, I want a bunch of it if I can get results like this. To win at that level, they have to be more than steady. You keep roping them and I will keep sticking them. I like the stick method a lot better because the dog does not relate the pressure to you but to the stick.


Edited by NorthTXbirdhunter (09/15/15 03:23 PM)

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#5929873 - 09/15/15 02:09 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: bill oxner]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 803
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


A lot of these gimmicks work fine. A few rears ago barrel training was all the rage. The thing is, you can't take them wild bird hunting. Most dog never hunt without the e-collar. Even then, some have a difficult time changing over to wild birds.



And btw Bill...I don't play the "put and take" game and my dogs will hunt wild birds till the world looks level and do an excellent job of it. They were whoa broke and steadied with the "Buddy Stick".

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#5929957 - 09/15/15 03:09 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Bill, this is no gimmick. It works real well. Buddy has broke several dogs in the Birddog Hall of Fame and he is used this method on all of them. He even broke Shadow Oak Bo and he has won 2 national championships in the last 3 years. If this is gimmick, I want a bunch of it if I can get results like this. To win at that level, they have to be more than steady. You keep roping them and I will keep sticking them. I like the stick method a lot better because the dog does not relate the pressure to you but to the stick.


Gimmick was a poor choice of words. I'm not trying to pick an argument on this thread. Just mostly trying to keep it going. The Smiths were no slouches either.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5929967 - 09/15/15 03:15 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
Cast Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 14901
Loc: North Texas - God's Country
I love this stuff. Keep talking.
_________________________
Cast



I have a short attention spa

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#5930038 - 09/15/15 03:53 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Cast]
NorthTXbirdhunter Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 803
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
The stick method allows you to work from both the front and the back of the pup and never lose control where the rope allows more work from the rear and holding the pup back. I can lead the pup to point and hold on a training bird and walk around front while still keeping the pressure on the collar not allowing the pup to move. Repetition is still the key in both processes but the stick allows you to keep control during the whole process. During the whoa breaking process, I snap the stick on the dog in the kennel and do the same process as rope training, walking and whoaing the dog. But the stick allows me to work out front. I don't need a helper to flush where the rope trainer has to have one a lot of times. I never take the stick off or turn loose of the pup during the whole process until I put the pup back in the kennel. I have heard this method described as "power steering" for pups. You can also use this method to teach the pup to heel. It has simplified whoa training for me and my pups have never lost any desire or drive or style as a result of the training.

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#5930046 - 09/15/15 03:57 PM Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32612
Loc: Richmond
I eventually get all around the pup during heel and whoa. Here's the buddy stick for you guys. I just took this thread beyond whoa breaking.

_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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