texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,768
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics536,994
Posts9,719,259
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid #5889713 08/21/15 10:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
A few months back some of you may remember a picture I posted of a 82 0pound "Coyote" that a fellow in VA had shot which we suspected was possibly a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid (see attached photo.)




After jumping through several loops I was finally able to get the DNA results by donating the skull to the NC Museum of Natural Sciences and they set tissue samples to the Wayne La, Dept. Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of California, Los Angeles, CA for DNA analysis.

Here are the summary results which I received in an email this week:

"We tested the large coyote with a diagnostic SNP panel to analyze its ancestry: 10 diagnostic coyote/wolf markers and 2 diagnostic coyote/dog markers. We also tried to amplify D-loop but the PCR failed, so I'm planning on getting back to that later this week.


Coyote/Wolf SNPs (10 loci):

- Heterozygous at 7/10 markers, homozygous coyote at 2/10 markers, and homozygous wolf at 1/10 markers

- 55% coyote alleles


Coyote/Dog SNPs (2 loci):

- Homozygous coyote at both markers


There is no evidence of dog ancestry, but the individual appears to be a potential F1 hybrid based on the coyote/wolf loci. We also tested 10 dog/wolf diagnostic SNPs, but the animal does not appear to be a dog hybrid (homozygous wolf at 7/10 markers, heterozygous at 2/10 markers, homozygous dog at 1/10 markers).


I'll send out the D-loop results when we have them, possibly next week."


So the bottom line is that it looks like a wolf-coyote hybrid that was killed in VA (where we do not have wolves).

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889728 08/21/15 10:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown Offline
kind of a big deal
Offline
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
I'd say you have them now..


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5889733 08/21/15 10:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
I'd say you have them now..


Wouldn't be the 1st one released/dumped, or escaped by someone that couldn't handle it anymore. I have had a few and they are work.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: Western] #5889737 08/21/15 10:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown Offline
kind of a big deal
Offline
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
Originally Posted By: Western
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
I'd say you have them now..


Wouldn't be the 1st one released/dumped, or escaped by someone that couldn't handle it anymore. I have had a few and they are work.


What percentage wolf though?


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889740 08/21/15 10:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Not sure its has to be an escaped animal.

Prior DNA studies of coyotes in Northern VA have shown wolf DNA. Apparently when the coyotes migrated east they interbreed with the Great Lakes wolves and also the Eastern Canada Wolf (Algonquin Wolf) as well as the red wolves in the south. So we know that the hybridization took place.

What they want to do next is take a hair sample ...see the text of an email I got today from the guys at NC Museum of Natural Sciences

"Wow, super interesting, a potential F1 Hybrid wolf-coyote from Virginia. This opens a lot of new questions! Perhaps the D-loop will shed some light on the origin of this wolf (if its mother was a wolf).


We should probably run an isotope test on the bones/hair to see if there is evidence of captivity (i.e. eating dog food would show up). I'll contact a friend about getting that done."

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889742 08/21/15 10:59 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
N
nsmike Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,376
In other news California confirmed it's first pack http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-cou...hern-california


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5889753 08/21/15 11:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Western
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
I'd say you have them now..


Wouldn't be the 1st one released/dumped, or escaped by someone that couldn't handle it anymore. I have had a few and they are work.


What percentage wolf though?


Mine where in the 80-90% range, that is x;d with a domestic type dog (malamute generally) x'd woth a coyote would be insanely tough.

Last edited by Western; 08/21/15 11:08 PM.

If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889764 08/21/15 11:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Dennis,
From one of the researchers I am working with

"The average eastern coyote has a little bit of dog and a little bit of Wolf genes mixed in. The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid. This is highly unusual and makes us wonder where the wolf could have come from"

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889815 08/21/15 11:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331
Duck_Hunter Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331
Tony, where in Virginia? I'm from Richmond and my family still lives there. This is very interesting.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


[Linked Image]
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889824 08/21/15 11:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Stoney Point, Albemarle County, VA (which is about 10 miles north of Charlottesville, VA.)

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889835 08/22/15 12:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Dennis,
From one of the researchers I am working with

"The average eastern coyote has a little bit of dog and a little bit of Wolf genes mixed in. The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid. This is highly unusual and makes us wonder where the wolf could have come from"


Don't doubt that all, but I know you can buy F1 wolf crosses, all day long.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: Western] #5889933 08/22/15 12:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted By: Western
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Dennis,
From one of the researchers I am working with

"The average eastern coyote has a little bit of dog and a little bit of Wolf genes mixed in. The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid. This is highly unusual and makes us wonder where the wolf could have come from"


Don't doubt that all, but I know you can buy F1 wolf crosses, all day long.


This is a first generation coyote-wolf cross....not a wolf-dog cross. Per the researcher, "The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid."

Also, they have asked (and I will get) some additional hair samples and bone samples. This would allow them to evaluate the potential history of this animal in captivity. Hair gives short-term evidence of diet, while bone gives long-term. What they want to find out is if there is any history of captivity. Also, the test revealed no dog DNA.

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889956 08/22/15 01:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,693
G
grout-scout Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,693
Coming soon to a county near you.... Coyote season closed - due to wolf genes.

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889966 08/22/15 01:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
Here is a Texas bred cross.... Dad is a Grey Wolf and mom is a Red Heeler.


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889987 08/22/15 01:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Originally Posted By: Western
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Dennis,
From one of the researchers I am working with

"The average eastern coyote has a little bit of dog and a little bit of Wolf genes mixed in. The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid. This is highly unusual and makes us wonder where the wolf could have come from"


Don't doubt that all, but I know you can buy F1 wolf crosses, all day long.


This is a first generation coyote-wolf cross....not a wolf-dog cross. Per the researcher, "The test on this animal shows that it has a massive amount of wolf genes, probably half of it's Genome. This suggest that one of its parents was a full-blooded wolf, that's what we mean by an F1 or first generation hybrid."

Also, they have asked (and I will get) some additional hair samples and bone samples. This would allow them to evaluate the potential history of this animal in captivity. Hair gives short-term evidence of diet, while bone gives long-term. What they want to find out is if there is any history of captivity. Also, the test revealed no dog DNA.


Would be interesting to see what is found through the hair. Hair stores a lot of current information, even chemicals.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5889992 08/22/15 01:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1
1860.colt Online Content
emoji colt.45
Online Content
emoji colt.45
1
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
cheers coolpics head looks like yote, body says wolf... Then i'm no expert .. Edit: scratch i've got thin hair, & its thinning.. Used ta comb it with a firecracker, its turning smokey grey, loosened my teeth, & scattered what few marbles i had.... Will eating that thar wild hog help my hair thicken ? flag

Last edited by colt.45; 08/22/15 01:45 AM.


i'm postaddic
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5890051 08/22/15 01:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Dennis,

I am curious as well. I got to know the hunter and he told me that the animal was known to be in the area for a while....and when he shot the animal it was running with 3 normal sized coyotes.

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5890052 08/22/15 02:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Running with other coyotes would be suspect to me, if it had been previously exposed to people. Still don't count that out, but packs aren't usually very inclusive to outsiders as a rule. Unless they are "taken over" by a dominate maybe.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: Western] #5890092 08/22/15 02:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,963
J
jdickey Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
J
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,963
Originally Posted By: Western
Running with other coyotes would be suspect to me, if it had been previously exposed to people. Still don't count that out, but packs aren't usually very inclusive to outsiders as a rule. Unless they are "taken over" by a dominate maybe.


It could have very well been the dominate male and pack leader given it is the largest in the pack. I've seen this with coydogs, particularly in east Texas.

As far as hair DNA, they might try TAMU Corpus Christi.


Bigfoot Research Specialist
http://www.texlaresearch.com/
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5890114 08/22/15 02:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
jdickey,

They have the ability to do the hair DNA. The researcher I am working with in NC "pioneered" the technique to determine if a wolf was a true wild wolf or one that escaped captivity by analyzing the hair samples and the linking that to diet. I have the paper if you'd like to read it.

What has them very interested is that it's an F1 or first generation hybrid and one of the parents is a full blooded wolf. So was it a wild wolf or an escaped wolf?

What the hair samples will do is determine if the animal that was killed was at some point in captivity. It will not tell anything about the parents being wild or domesticated.

So there is always going to be that unknown.....unless the hair/bone DNA show this animal was in captivity. Then I'd think the chances were high that the wolf parent was also in captivity. But who crosses coyotes and wolves? Dogs and wolves...yes....coyotes and wolves...?????

Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5892039 08/23/15 08:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331
Duck_Hunter Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,331
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Stoney Point, Albemarle County, VA (which is about 10 miles north of Charlottesville, VA.)



I know Stoney Point. I'll be watching this thread. Thanks for posting. I hope you keep updating.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


[Linked Image]
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5892415 08/24/15 12:51 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy Online Happy
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Happy
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Quote:
So the bottom line is that it looks like a wolf-coyote hybrid that was killed in VA (where we do not have wolves).


Right, because migratory coyotes are mating with wolves in the Great Lakes region before continuing down into VA.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111025163149.htm
https://wildlifestudies.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/brnp_coy_wolf_hybrid.pdf


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5892494 08/24/15 01:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Awesome project, Tony!

Having been a predator hunter before any other hunter, I appreciate what you are doing. And I thank you for sharing it with us. To some of us this is important science, and important research.

I remember reading an article on wolves speaking of the Yellowstone now packs instead of pack. And a biologist stated "the only thing that will keep the wolve from reaching the Rio Grande is if we stop them."

I will be watching. up


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: Double Naught Spy] #5892542 08/24/15 01:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
T
TonyinVA Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Quote:
So the bottom line is that it looks like a wolf-coyote hybrid that was killed in VA (where we do not have wolves).


Right, because migratory coyotes are mating with wolves in the Great Lakes region before continuing down into VA.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111025163149.htm
https://wildlifestudies.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/brnp_coy_wolf_hybrid.pdf


Double Naught Spy,

I am familiar with both articles.

I also know that most of the coyotes in VA (and most of the East for that matter)have wolf DNA. Either Great Lakes Wolves or Algonquin Wolves (Canada) or Red Wolves (Carolinas) depending the coyotes migration route. BTW, Gray wolves are the only wolf species that has a black color phase....and we get black coyotes in VA so there can be an argument made that there is Gray Wolf DNA in the mix as well as well. So an Eastern coyote with wolf DNA is no surprise. We wanted the DNA analysis to find out what exactly it was because of the size...82 pounds. We thought maybe it was an escaped wolf-dog hybrid because the biggest eastern coyote we'd seen in VA was 66 pounds. I was pretty certain the animal in question was going to have a DNA result showing some wolf in the DNA. I just did not know if it was going to be wolf-dog, coyote-wolf or maybe even coyote-dog.

The unexpected news is that this animal is an F1 or first generation hybrid and no dog DNA. That means one of the parents was a full blooded wolf. That is the ONLY thing that surprised me and the researchers. So what the researchers want to do is to (1) try and determine what species of wolf and (2) use bone and hair samples to see if the animal that was killed was ever in captivity. Apparently they can do that by analyzing the bones and hair. The original DNA analysis was done with tissue samples off the skull (pic attached).


Re: DNA Results Received..It's a Coyote/Wolf Hybrid [Re: TonyinVA] #5892563 08/24/15 02:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
P
Palehorse Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
P
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
What ever it is, it's a very cool trophy!

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3