"Depleted" uranium bullets darnt!!!!!

Blood shot meat is real, it's measurable. Now it's consistency is a different story.

Mass isn't an equalizer

There is more to bullet performance than the "one simple premise" of impact velocity. Much more. But that is the current thought process of many today. Just as it was in the early 20th century when the 3000 FPS mark was the "Holy Grail" - and when it was reached with the .250/3000 and .220 Swift no one could fathom why those hyenas, sable, mule deer, etc. were running off to die miles away when shot by these lightning bolt throwers.

History is repeating itself with all the Berger,VLD, etc. bullets currently in vogue for LR applications. IMO in the foreseeable future guys will begin to let good bullets determine the ranges instead of ranges determining the bullets.

Since we don't geehaw well for some reason, that's all I'll say on this subject.

No there isn't any thing more then impact velocity. Every bullet is designed with in a threshold. Above or below that threshold the design aspect you speak of is useless. All bullets are designed for a certain penetration and mushroom expansion. That only happens with in a velocity range.

A partition or monolithic is nothing more then FMJ under a certain velocity. A bonded bullet will do the same under a certain velocity. Just like a Nosler BT or Berger VLD is nothing more then fly bits of copper and lead alloy over a certain velocity and even can act like a FMJ at extremely low velocities.

Nosler partitions are my favorite. Never been the slightest bit unhappy with them. By chance they were one of the first bullets I tried in my 270 when I started handloading. I now load them in almost every center fire rifle I load for.

I shot two 150 lb sows last year with my 270 win and 150 grain NP's. Bullet hit the first one behind the shoulders it ran about 20 yards with ample blood trail and pieces of lung on the ground the back one was hit in the neck DRT. Bullet completely passed through both with a good wound channel. I wish there was a third one back there so I could have collected 3 for the day.

No doubt other bullets will work, but nosler partitons are my pick.

I agree with this to some extent. Mono metal bullets and even bonded bullets are hard they require lots of speed on impact to work correctly, in my opinion more speed than a bunch of caliber offerings are capable of offering. A nosler partition requires in my mind no more speed to function correctly than a rem corlock, sierra game king etc. however in the event of hi velocity/close range impact/heavy bone etc. it has the partition for backup to finish the job.

No history isn't repeating its self. All that wounding you speak of 30 years ago wasn't soley bullet performance, it was pushing a mechanical made "system" beyond its capabilities of hitting its aiming point. How many 30 year old guns you have with 30 year old powers and 30 year old bullets(built with minimal consititancies compared today) can hold a MOA group over 600 yards? Hell 200 yards. Today's accuracy standards have shrunk considerably.

A MOA gun 20 years ago was a thing only found in the best of the best makers.

Now even you budget guns easily obtain that with consistency in rifle and cartridge manufacturing.

Look at consistency also in OTC ammo now also

Nailed it...the impact velocity threshold of mono, partition, a frame now is so high it exceeds most capabilities. That's its impact range.

Both the a frame and partition have had to address design and mfg changes though to get there. There was a time you could get a partition to fail its intended purpose if you reach the upper ends of its velocity threshold.

Every bullet is designed with in a velocity spectrum. Bad things can happen when you don't stay within the range.

Grand scheme pick a bullet and put it in the right place with in its impact specs... Good things will happen

agree

To say hydrostatic shock is not a real thing is to live in denial.

Break down the words

Hydro: water
Static: still, not moving
Shock: sudden upset or movement

Mammals are carbon vessels full of water. The static mammal suddenly impacted by a project will have shock imparted in that water. Plain and simple. Most of us have skinned the deer we hit square in the shoulder and seen the meat turned to jelly, but with no bullet fragments inside.

The ability to place shots farther is a culmination of many factors. Better rifles, better optics, more consistent powders and bullets. Add to that the people that regularly train at distance and man has extended his effective range. It is no different than graduating feom the spear to the long bow, to the recurve bow.

The ethics of the shot are determined by the person's experience at that distance. A 400 yard shot does not give me any pause since I shoot 800 yards every week. But we have all seen the person that has trouble keepong shots inside 8" at 100 yards.

To speak on the VLD I will lean on personal experience and that of close friends of mine. All of us have killed game including whitetail, elk, and auodad with dead animals and little to no tracking. Until it shows me that it is not working I will keep using them.

I never saw it as a nervous system shutdown, I see it more as the watermelon effect that destroys liquid-filled soft tissue as energy transfers. AKA, when vital cavity looks like mush even though only a small part of it got impacted by the bullet.

This exemplifies what I see a lot in the discussion and gets a lot of hand-wringing going. Which leads to the bullet choices described above. At what most consider reasonable hunting ranges (400 yards and under) proper expansion using a monometal is not an issue to be concerned with. (Actually, a more valid concern would be lack of expansion at close range in high velocity calibers, but even that is overblown IMO.)

Just get some Nosler 160 grain partitions and go hunting

Could you explain how this is possible? That's an old wives tale. Higher velocity means more not less expansion. If it's close enough the bullet may not be fully stable yet resulting in a higher propensity to yaw after impact at close range causing fragmentation.

After reading a lot of back and forth on the subject, I tend to agree with you. I am no expert. But many swear that some momometal bullets do not expand well until velocities get down below a certain point, depending on the bullet size. Especially on deer sized game. They swear the fast monometal bullet needs sufficient resistance to expand properly.

I have always heard the opposite on monos. They need velocity or bone to expand. This is part of the reason people run them lite for calibur, I believe.

The hydrostatic shock is very real, especially when comparing different types of bullets. There is a definite larger hydrostatic shock wound channel with a common lead bullet compared to a solid copper bullet, like the Barnes. If you compare the hydrostatic shock area of the same weight bullet in the same caliber, you will see a definite and larger hydrostatic shock wound channel with a lead bullet than with a solid of the same weight. Even dropping down to the lighter weight solid bullets, you still have less hydrostatic shock than a lead bullet. I have spoken to several bullet technicians about terminal performance, and hydrostatic shock has a real effect. I have gone away from recommending the Barnes TSX bullets due to the poor performance many of my customers are getting on larger game. The solids are effectively passing through the animals, and causing damage when the bullet passes through. The animal does expire, and they often run much further when hit. But the solids lack the "shock" a lead bullet offers for a quicker incapacitating effect.

No proof exists of a bullet not being stable at close range. Speaking of wives tales.

Brian Litz still has an open invite for anyone that can prove this hypothesis.

Yaw may occur in transsonic flight and that may be well beyond 1000 yards.

The 168gr Berger VLD has worked very well from my 7mm Rem Mag. Turning lots of velocity with Retumbo and a 29" Krieger.

Everything with bullet choice is a tradeoff. Why? Because there are so many dynamics to each shot and you don't know what they will be until the shot 1)presents itself and 2)is fired.

What you can control in making your bullet selection choice is your choice based on the most likely scenarios that may be presented. Things like size and body construction of game sought and most likely ranges of the shot.

Since elk are big, tough animals most err on the side of caution and opt for well constructed bullets. That's why the choices like partition, AB, and monometals are the best choice IMO. It would not be wise to assume every shot will be perfectly placed in soft tissue or that every shot will be at long range (where BC might be the prime consideration).

A monometal will sacrifice some expansion for more assured penetration, for example. Many feel that on large, tough animals that is a good tradeoff. Many feel that ABs and partitions provide a great balance of both. I would not argue with either group.

I would argue that going too far in either direction (i.e. using too frangible a bullet or using a FMJ/solid) would be an unwise tradeoff for elk.

Each animal is different, with different factors that come into play (animal size, toughness, habitat, etc.)

" But many swear that some momometal bullets do not expand well until velocities get down below a certain point, depending on the bullet size. Especially on deer sized game. They swear the fast monometal bullet needs sufficient resistance to expand properly."

Resistance INCREASES with the square of velocity. Faster means MORE resistance and MORE expansion.

Right

Which doesn't speak well for a bullet that sheds weight/mass quickly which kills velocity.

Berger has a special line for Elk. Designed for maximum penetration and expansion it will drop "drt" anything from a calf to that monster bull regardless of shot placement. This is the same line that Realkiller switched to after losing that monster buck and it's buckets of blood from those silly monometal, partition, accubond, SMK junk that all you uneducated people use.




... only reload with ball powder

Smh...

You never let me down!