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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#5864932 - 08/05/15 05:27 PM very interesting article on culling
tlk Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1965
I am interested in opinions on this - long read but very interesting


http://ckwri.tamuk.edu/news/news-item/ar...lts-on-culling/
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#5864984 - 08/05/15 06:09 PM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43776
Loc: Kingwood
It does some contradicting on genetics and high grading, but a pretty good read.

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#5864988 - 08/05/15 06:13 PM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
tlk Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1965
yeah I know the Comanche folks and their operation is the top one in Texas and maybe the country - all first class people as is the ranch so their info is totally legit -
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#5865049 - 08/05/15 06:40 PM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
Big_Ag Offline
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Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 1006
Loc: Denton or Knox County
The biggest unknown factor in culling is the doe contribution. Our wildlife biologist claims does contribute more than 50% of the genes passed on, but they don't have a set of antlers on their head that show what genes they have. Culling bucks is less than half of the formula. A formula you can never solve because you can't determine what does contribute.So, as the study concludes, culling criteria on bucks takes out the lesser quality bucks in an age class earlier and protects the bucks with the most potential enabling them to reach maturity.The actual impact on the gene pool on free range deer is minimal, but your trophy buck quality will improve because you are allowing the better quality bucks to reach their peak antler producing age.

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#5865292 - 08/05/15 08:48 PM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: Big_Ag]
tlk Online   content
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Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1965
I agree - to me the "safest" way to cull is does - but they are 50% of the equation. Problem is there is no way to distinguish the good does from the bad.

If left up to me the number one priority would be to eliminate mouths to feed - the less mouths the more food for those deer that are left to eat. You put X amount of food on a table and let 20 guys share it or you let 10 guys share it? If there are only 10 guys sharing it they are going to gain wait and nutrition much more than if there are 20 guys sharing. Not rocket science -

The ranch we are on has had steady improvement in horn size over the past 20 years and we cull heavily on bucks and does. The buck culling may have no more impact than the doe culling but at the end of the day your are eliminating competition for food. Proof is in the pudding - so despite all the studies it is hard to argue with success -
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#5865500 - 08/05/15 10:33 PM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
txbobcat Online   content
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Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 2468
Loc: TX
Kroll and the spike buck fans will not like that info...

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#5865683 - 08/06/15 07:14 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I prefer to cull early on and cull a lot. Dead deer don't breed. For does the way I view is this way, if I like the way the bucks look then I keep all the younger does/does without fawns(usually young) and shoot the older does/does with fawns first. That will let the deer related to the mature deer/deer you like continue to breed. If you do not like the way your bucks look then I would shoot all the young does first for a few years. I seen a similar talk on this study given by David Hewitt from CKWRI and have it in a PDF folder he sent to me. He has graphs and statistics to back up his statements.
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#5865737 - 08/06/15 08:03 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
The way I look at it on our place is we are low fence, so at best all our culling is doing is population control.

In a controlled environment or hf property both bucks and does cary genetics for antlers, but the only ones that express what they carry are bucks. So manage both bucks and does for the numbers you want to carry and shoot the older does. As time moves on the does that are born will have more and more of the genes that the bucks your seeing have.
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#5865801 - 08/06/15 08:44 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43776
Loc: Kingwood
A lot will have to do with CC, if you haven't exceeded it, then culling really isn't doing much. I've seen culling (indiscriminate) on HF do a lot of good bc the place had sit idle for years due to a family feud. On the same note, I've seen it completely decimate a large low fence place with absolutely no improvement on quality and less top tier deer produced. In our area, you will also see better deer on LF properties that sit idle compared to the LF managed MLD3 properties in the same area.

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#5865812 - 08/06/15 08:54 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
SniperRAB Online   content
GRAMPS!!!

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 21024
Loc: Nurturing Biosphere Mothership
Originally Posted By: tlk
I agree - to me the "safest" way to cull is does - but they are 50% of the equation. Problem is there is no way to distinguish the good does from the bad.

If left up to me the number one priority would be to eliminate mouths to feed - the less mouths the more food for those deer that are left to eat. You put X amount of food on a table and let 20 guys share it or you let 10 guys share it? If there are only 10 guys sharing it they are going to gain wait and nutrition much more than if there are 20 guys sharing. Not rocket science -

The ranch we are on has had steady improvement in horn size over the past 20 years and we cull heavily on bucks and does. The buck culling may have no more impact than the doe culling but at the end of the day your are eliminating competition for food. Proof is in the pudding - so despite all the studies it is hard to argue with success -


Well Said
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#5865926 - 08/06/15 09:52 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: SniperRAB]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Originally Posted By: SniperRAB
Originally Posted By: tlk
I agree - to me the "safest" way to cull is does - but they are 50% of the equation. Problem is there is no way to distinguish the good does from the bad.

If left up to me the number one priority would be to eliminate mouths to feed - the less mouths the more food for those deer that are left to eat. You put X amount of food on a table and let 20 guys share it or you let 10 guys share it? If there are only 10 guys sharing it they are going to gain wait and nutrition much more than if there are 20 guys sharing. Not rocket science -

The ranch we are on has had steady improvement in horn size over the past 20 years and we cull heavily on bucks and does. The buck culling may have no more impact than the doe culling but at the end of the day your are eliminating competition for food. Proof is in the pudding - so despite all the studies it is hard to argue with success -


Well Said

There is a way grin
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#5865932 - 08/06/15 09:54 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43776
Loc: Kingwood
4 legs? Fluffier than normal tail? Doesn't state down stands and spend 90% of their time stomping at stands? Breathing?

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#5866037 - 08/06/15 10:59 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
Bbear Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/24/13
Posts: 596
Loc: West Texas
Originally Posted By: tlk
I agree - to me the "safest" way to cull is does - but they are 50% of the equation. Problem is there is no way to distinguish the good does from the bad.

If left up to me the number one priority would be to eliminate mouths to feed - the less mouths the more food for those deer that are left to eat. You put X amount of food on a table and let 20 guys share it or you let 10 guys share it? If there are only 10 guys sharing it they are going to gain wait and nutrition much more than if there are 20 guys sharing. Not rocket science -

The ranch we are on has had steady improvement in horn size over the past 20 years and we cull heavily on bucks and does. The buck culling may have no more impact than the doe culling but at the end of the day your are eliminating competition for food. Proof is in the pudding - so despite all the studies it is hard to argue with success -


Did this on a lease I was on in Llano county - simply reduced the mouths fed and took out the 'longhorn' spikes (took 13 the first year, average age was 5 years old). After 5 years the average 8 point or better went from 110" bucks to 125-135 with an occasional 145 thrown in. Does, on the other hand, average weight dropped from 65 lbs down to 50 as guys on the lease took the biggest does they could find.
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#5866082 - 08/06/15 11:30 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: rifleman]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6447
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: redchevy
The way I look at it on our place is we are low fence, so at best all our culling is doing is population control.

In a controlled environment or hf property both bucks and does cary genetics for antlers, but the only ones that express what they carry are bucks. So manage both bucks and does for the numbers you want to carry and shoot the older does. As time moves on the does that are born will have more and more of the genes that the bucks your seeing have.


I disagree. Yes, deer travel, but if you take that spike out before he travels and passes his genes on, you're doing some good. I do like your doe tactics-as you and STX pointed out, over time the younger does should have more of the genetics you're after.


Originally Posted By: rifleman
A lot will have to do with CC, if you haven't exceeded it, then culling really isn't doing much.


If you haven't exceeded CC, then what you're seeing is more a result of genetics than nutrition, and IMO it's more important to cull at that point because you've taken out that part of the equation.

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#5866095 - 08/06/15 11:39 AM Re: very interesting article on culling [Re: tlk]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43776
Loc: Kingwood
Our browse isn't protein rich like other areas of the state. You aren't going to magically create a natural habitat that is that way and cutting mouths is not going to free up things that don't exist. It's not a genetics issue, it's a nutritional issue that won't allow genetics to be expressed.

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