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Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: tx_biologist] #5867258 08/07/15 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: tx_biologist
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
And y'all said it was only me and few other nuts on here.

Them dang communist anti-hunters! Trying to protect free-ranging animals.

smile

So then are you going to be the flag bearer calling for the slaughter of all the mule deer and elk in the CWD area in West Texas? Everyone else seems to be occupied with slaughtering all breeder pen deer and stop breeders from operating. Those free-ranging animals are still moving around and spreading CWD to who knows where by now.


To give you an answer: Private Property rights on a free range herd (access), very different consequence on a permitted deer operation. Its that a permitted operation the permit allows the landowner to possess and manage that herd. If the situation is considered illegal or potentially harmful to wild deer populations then the permit can be pulled or herd eradicated. The landowner may manage the deer but does not own them. Contrary to current uninformed individuals.

Now if you have the intuition to analyze and explore deer movements and populations in far west Texas (MD) then you would come to the conclusion that those particular animals are isolated and the rate of migration is extremely low and slow. TPWD has admitted the CWD in the MD animals in Culberson and Hudspeth Co's may have been there for some time before detection without spreading to adjacent herds and feel confident that the spread and infection rate would take a considerable time say 20-50 years to expound beyond their current range. Most fear came from contaminated carcass hauled all over the state and deposited who knows where. Detection has been slow due low harvest and collection number and was only discovered after a precise collection effort.

Deer breeder moving deer is a different ball of wax and CWD movement across the state is capable in as little as one year. This scenario is the worst in terms of epidemiology control of a disease, through private property rights and access to possible infected herds and CWD gets statewide in a few years not decades or a half a century as in the case of Trans-Pecos MD. The Elk have the same issues concerning private property rights, no one can walk onto your property to remove those animals with a warrant to trespass, in deer breeders its that permit they agreed to gives the state management authority the trespass warrant to inspect and oversee the regulation of that particular herd.

Being a rancher and livestock owner you should review USDA quarantine/eradication procedures for highly contagious disease such as foot and mouth...... you lose everything.


You still didn't answer the question.

Because you don't know the answer. None of you so called experts do.

WE do have intuition, being a biologist doesn't make it exclusive. And my intuition tells me you don't know what the hell your talking about when it comes to understanding what causes this disease and how to control it. And neither does TPWD.


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Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5867274 08/07/15 03:25 AM
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Why have the mule deer not all died by now? Even taking out the migration theory of keeping it contained. Why if it's so devastating to the entire deer population, hasn't it wiped out all the mule deer in Culberson and Hudspeth county?


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Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #5867312 08/07/15 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Why have the mule deer not all died by now? Even taking out the migration theory of keeping it contained. Why if it's so devastating to the entire deer population, hasn't it wiped out all the mule deer in Culberson and Hudspeth county?


Not enough data on the area in question, don't know..... Please go to those landowners impacted by CWD and ask for permission to allow a state university to study CWD effects on their property. We need the answers, but see if you get a warm reception. It's been tried... almost shut his lease hunting operation down, he's not a happy camper.

Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: therancher] #5867342 08/07/15 04:08 AM
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Let me help ya out here sparky. Other states have breeders and stocking programs, and have also had CWD for DECADES. And CWD has proven to be statistically inconsequential in those states. Even in Wisconsin, where they tried to eradicate the wild deer population in order to contain CWD (the most unsuccessful control method ever btw), the wild populations are rebounding. Even after the combined efforts of the wisconsin DNR and CWD.

First, prove that CWD is in fact a legitimate threat to ANY deer population. And do it by showing us ONE wild deer that died of CWD.

I'm waiting. [/quote]

I wont post it again but look and read the articles I posted in the 1st page of the thread, evedentually you didn't. That will answer your question on the threat.

Find and cite any credible sources that CWD is a good this for deer in Texas you can use other states data. I want to see your data on deer populations that are affected by CWD now or in the forecasted future. See what they say.

PICS: When you deal with a disease that is 100% lethal, that cannot be diagnosed besides in a lab, and scavengers, carcasses are hard to come by. Look on the internet plenty are there, show deer, elk with the disease in breeders and pens, plenty, not one in the wild just because you don't know if its a carrier.

Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #5867349 08/07/15 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: tx_biologist
[quote=stxranchman][quote=Nogalus Prairie]And y'all said it was only me and few other nuts on here.


To give you an answer: Private Property rights on a free range herd (access), very different consequence on a permitted deer operation. Its that a permitted operation the permit allows the landowner to possess and manage that herd. If the situation is considered illegal or potentially harmful to wild deer populations then the permit can be pulled or herd eradicated. The landowner may manage the deer but does not own them. Contrary to current uninformed individuals.

Now if you have the intuition to analyze and explore deer movements and populations in far west Texas (MD) then you would come to the conclusion that those particular animals are isolated and the rate of migration is extremely low and slow. TPWD has admitted the CWD in the MD animals in Culberson and Hudspeth Co's may have been there for some time before detection without spreading to adjacent herds and feel confident that the spread and infection rate would take a considerable time say 20-50 years to expound beyond their current range. Most fear came from contaminated carcass hauled all over the state and deposited who knows where. Detection has been slow due low harvest and collection number and was only discovered after a precise collection effort.

Deer breeder moving deer is a different ball of wax and CWD movement across the state is capable in as little as one year. This scenario is the worst in terms of epidemiology control of a disease, through private property rights and access to possible infected herds and CWD gets statewide in a few years not decades or a half a century as in the case of Trans-Pecos MD. The Elk have the same issues concerning private property rights, no one can walk onto your property to remove those animals with a warrant to trespass, in deer breeders its that permit they agreed to gives the state management authority the trespass warrant to inspect and oversee the regulation of that particular herd.

Being a rancher and livestock owner you should review USDA quarantine/eradication procedures for highly contagious disease such as foot and mouth...... you lose everything.


You still didn't answer the question.

Because you don't know the answer. None of you so called experts do.

WE do have intuition, being a biologist doesn't make it exclusive. And my intuition tells me you don't know what the hell your talking about when it comes to understanding what causes this disease and how to control it. And neither does TPWD.


I answered the question you just ignored it. If the state showed up at your ranch/lease and said they want to test your herd....you'd lawyer up faster than you could pull a trigger on a gun. Private Property rights Hello....

Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: tx_biologist] #5867376 08/07/15 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: tx_biologist

Let me help ya out here sparky. Other states have breeders and stocking programs, and have also had CWD for DECADES. And CWD has proven to be statistically inconsequential in those states. Even in Wisconsin, where they tried to eradicate the wild deer population in order to contain CWD (the most unsuccessful control method ever btw), the wild populations are rebounding. Even after the combined efforts of the wisconsin DNR and CWD.

First, prove that CWD is in fact a legitimate threat to ANY deer population. And do it by showing us ONE wild deer that died of CWD.

I'm waiting.


I wont post it again but look and read the articles I posted in the 1st page of the thread, evedentually you didn't. That will answer your question on the threat.

Find and cite any credible sources that CWD is a good this for deer in Texas you can use other states data. I want to see your data on deer populations that are affected by CWD now or in the forecasted future. See what they say.

PICS: When you deal with a disease that is 100% lethal, that cannot be diagnosed besides in a lab, and scavengers, carcasses are hard to come by. Look on the internet plenty are there, show deer, elk with the disease in breeders and pens, plenty, not one in the wild just because you don't know if its a carrier.
[/quote]



I read most of your articles. The ones I read only pointed to "fears that it 'might' decimate populations". Wisconsin has had known cases since 2002; Wyoming, Colorado and other western areas have had it for over 3 decades. It has yet to decimate a wild population anywhere.

You say it's "100%" fatal, but you can't show me one case of a deer found in the wild that is known to have died from CWD.

I find that incredible when I lost over 80% of my deer low fenced herd on a ranch to anthrax that is only 85+% fatal. Your carcass statement is obviously BS because we can prove that all of those deer that died from anthrax, died from anthrax.

Blow smoke up someone else's a$$.

Last edited by therancher; 08/07/15 05:02 AM.

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Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5867385 08/07/15 05:32 AM
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CWD mortality is not apparent, you can test soil around the carcass site, there's data that supports that.

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/chronic_wasting_disease/cwd_news.jsp

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160281/

Really good group of compiled articles that you should read. It will answer a lot. Pay special attention to how CWD can mask or appear like other diseases except in late stages.

Oh and on your anthrax issue did you have all those deer tested? Guess its the same rancher perspective "that's what it must be!" And really 80% have the deer surveys pre and post anthrax to back it up? Most don't have a clue what they have.

No smoke here just facts pulled off the old interweb, not a whole lot of credibility on your behalf, by slamming facts that scientists have presented. Not one shred of evidence supports your statements you provided on this forum roflmao

Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: tx_biologist] #5867392 08/07/15 05:58 AM
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CWD mortality is "not apparent"??

But I thought you could test for it. Are you saying all those deer they are diagnosing really don't have CWD? Of course you know better. Any dead deer that died of CWD can be tested for CWD. It just doesn't fit your narrative.

No, I didn't test any of the animals in 2001 on my ranches between del rio and Sonora. But, they were dead center of that years outbreak and it was documented well in that area. Hundreds of animal carcasses were tested positive, something that could be done with CWD carcasses if they could ever find one outside a pen.


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Re: Hunters and Conservationists Unite in Response to Chronic Wasting Disease Finding in Captive Deer Herd [Re: tx_biologist] #5867580 08/07/15 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: tx_biologist
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
And y'all said it was only me and few other nuts on here.

Them dang communist anti-hunters! Trying to protect free-ranging animals.

smile

So then are you going to be the flag bearer calling for the slaughter of all the mule deer and elk in the CWD area in West Texas? Everyone else seems to be occupied with slaughtering all breeder pen deer and stop breeders from operating. Those free-ranging animals are still moving around and spreading CWD to who knows where by now.


To give you an answer: Private Property rights on a free range herd (access), very different consequence on a permitted deer operation. Its that a permitted operation the permit allows the landowner to possess and manage that herd. If the situation is considered illegal or potentially harmful to wild deer populations then the permit can be pulled or herd eradicated. The landowner may manage the deer but does not own them. Contrary to current uninformed individuals.

Now if you have the intuition to analyze and explore deer movements and populations in far west Texas (MD) then you would come to the conclusion that those particular animals are isolated and the rate of migration is extremely low and slow. TPWD has admitted the CWD in the MD animals in Culberson and Hudspeth Co's may have been there for some time before detection without spreading to adjacent herds and feel confident that the spread and infection rate would take a considerable time say 20-50 years to expound beyond their current range. Most fear came from contaminated carcass hauled all over the state and deposited who knows where. Detection has been slow due low harvest and collection number and was only discovered after a precise collection effort.

Deer breeder moving deer is a different ball of wax and CWD movement across the state is capable in as little as one year. This scenario is the worst in terms of epidemiology control of a disease, through private property rights and access to possible infected herds and CWD gets statewide in a few years not decades or a half a century as in the case of Trans-Pecos MD. The Elk have the same issues concerning private property rights, no one can walk onto your property to remove those animals with a warrant to trespass, in deer breeders its that permit they agreed to gives the state management authority the trespass warrant to inspect and oversee the regulation of that particular herd.

Being a rancher and livestock owner you should review USDA quarantine/eradication procedures for highly contagious disease such as foot and mouth...... you lose everything.


Really? What happened in the piroplasmosis outbreak? What about a Scrapie's outbreak in fredricksberg?

I'll anwser that for you TAHC was involved and used sound judgement, not an over reaching slaughter them all TPWD political ideology.

You want to go over any other outbreaks in Texas in the last 20 years?

Being that foot and mouth hasnt been seen in America in what 90 plus years and now has a vaccination let's pick something else.


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