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Why you never EVER shoot spikes #5857588 07/31/15 11:47 PM
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therancher Offline OP
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* if you want to raise big bucks (I realize big is a relative term, but big for most folks is 160 or better).


The nubbin was born in mid november last fall so he's a "yearling" and should (based on conventional BS wisdom) be a multi horned buck. He is eating all the protein he can stand. I have another just like him.

There are no other genetics in the pasture he's in. Virtually all mature bucks in this pasture will make 160" - 250" (as evidenced last year by the "cull" 3 yr old 156" straight 8 we shot. The other two deer are 3 and 4 and will add 20 to 30" of antler before they're done this year.

I wish there was some way I could legally mark the two nubbins I have. I'd let them make 6 years old and bet all comers they'd be over 160".

stir





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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857621 08/01/15 12:09 AM
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LF <> HF.


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857624 08/01/15 12:11 AM
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #5857640 08/01/15 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
LF <> HF.


Yes


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857660 08/01/15 12:40 AM
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Holy moly, he jumped from nubbin to stud. grin

Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857681 08/01/15 12:53 AM
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Born in mid-November?

And I call that a nubbing, not a spike


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857684 08/01/15 12:57 AM
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: txshntr] #5857700 08/01/15 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: txshntr
Born in mid-November?

And I call that a nubbing, not a spike

And you would be wrong. He is still last years model and still going to be of breeding age when he gets hardened spikettes this Sept.


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: stxranchman] #5857734 08/01/15 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: txshntr
Born in mid-November?

And I call that a nubbing, not a spike

And you would be wrong. He is still last years model and still going to be of breeding age when he gets hardened spikettes this Sept.


Take him to school and spank his a$$!


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857739 08/01/15 01:21 AM
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"Spikettes!" Love it rofl


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857747 08/01/15 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
I wish there was some way I could legally mark the two nubbins I have.



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[b][/b]
Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: txshntr] #5857752 08/01/15 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: txshntr
Born in mid-November?

And I call that a nubbing, not a spike


Yep. Had 4 fawns drop in nov. I've owned ranches in Sanderson, big lake, Sonora, uvalde, and mountain home. I've never had a ranch that didn't have fawns born in October. These are the first born in November.

And I called him a nubbin too in the opening post. But stx is right. He'll be hard horned in the fall. But, he won't breed many. And if he does it'll be ok. He's destined for greatness. wink


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857770 08/01/15 01:37 AM
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Wanna take some bets on what this one turned into this year? grin


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857795 08/01/15 01:50 AM
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Sausage?

Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: stxranchman] #5857796 08/01/15 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: txshntr
Born in mid-November?

And I call that a nubbing, not a spike

And you would be wrong. He is still last years model and still going to be of breeding age when he gets hardened spikettes this Sept.


Makes sense.

Never seen or heard of one dropping in November. Sure changes the 1/2 on all the ages grin

We will have a few with spots still in October, but only seen one in 20 years that had them into November.


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857806 08/01/15 01:59 AM
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Had one last year like that, but have seen them just a few days old the week of Thanksgiving.

Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857815 08/01/15 02:02 AM
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That's why I have NEVER been a fan of shooting young spikes. Way to many variables to judge his future based on his first hard horns. Of course I hunt a low fence place where a big buck is 130" so my management practices really don't mean squat in the big picture but its still something I wont do.

Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857850 08/01/15 02:20 AM
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857876 08/01/15 02:32 AM
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Per Kerr Wildlife Research: (https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf)
I have to also agree with the others calling these nubbins not spikes


Our analyses show clear differences between the size of antlers and body mass of
adult white-tailed bucks that were spike- or fork-antlered as yearlings in our control herd.
If the results of penned studies are applicable to free-ranging or managed populations,
then the distinction between these classes of yearlings could be of value to those wishing
11 - D

to improve the average GBC scores of mature bucks. Improvement of GBC scores
within a herd could be accomplished by selectively culling spike yearling bucks. This
technique would increase mean antler quality at maturity within a cohort of bucks simply
by reducing the number of small-antlered bucks contributing to the population mean
(Armstrong et al. 1995). Improvement would be realized within the population, at the
expense of cohort size, regardless of the genetic basis of antler traits.

Last edited by doogie; 08/01/15 02:35 AM.
Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: Reloder28] #5857948 08/01/15 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Reloder28
Originally Posted By: therancher
I wish there was some way I could legally mark the two nubbins I have.



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I'm thinking that wouldn't be permanent and somehow the state would say it's cruelty.


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857968 08/01/15 03:12 AM
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Do him like Travis did the hogs in old yellar.

Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5857989 08/01/15 03:27 AM
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The born in November thing throws me off. I wouldn't expect an 8-9 month old deer to be showing much.

Seems like there would be a way to keep track of your two deer and follow their progression. I'm not the expert though....


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: doogie] #5857995 08/01/15 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: doogie
Per Kerr Wildlife Research: (https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf)
I have to also agree with the others calling these nubbins not spikes


Our analyses show clear differences between the size of antlers and body mass of
adult white-tailed bucks that were spike- or fork-antlered as yearlings in our control herd.
If the results of penned studies are applicable to free-ranging or managed populations,
then the distinction between these classes of yearlings could be of value to those wishing
11 - D

to improve the average GBC scores of mature bucks. Improvement of GBC scores
within a herd could be accomplished by selectively culling spike yearling bucks. This
technique would increase mean antler quality at maturity within a cohort of bucks simply
by reducing the number of small-antlered bucks contributing to the population mean
(Armstrong et al. 1995). Improvement would be realized within the population, at the
expense of cohort size, regardless of the genetic basis of antler traits.


And you missed the basic and most important point I made. This nubbin buck was born 7 months ago. He WILL be a hard horn spike this fall. And I know he has awesome genetics.

Your studies don't take into account buck fawns born in October and November. And there are more than most people think. This has been an awesome browse year and I protein feed. So I know that a spike this fall was born very late in 2014.


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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5858000 08/01/15 03:40 AM
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I see your point. I definitely have some late born fawns at my place too. Some with spots during rifle season. Never seen one born in October or November though.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes [Re: therancher] #5858004 08/01/15 03:43 AM
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Sooo... grin if all fawns born very late are destined to be spikes..then what about those ranches who have all their fawns born in late April thru May? Same great rainfall and protein and they still see a lot of spikes that never grow out anywhere close to 160 (unless you get a two for one special and add them both up).


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