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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#5852989 - 07/29/15 01:18 AM Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses
Sniper John Online   happy

gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16271
Loc: North Texas
The Arkansas Supreme Court last month ruled that checking an individual's hunting license without a reasonable suspicion of breaking a law is a violation of that hunter"s constitutional rights. The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is no longer allowing Game Wardens to do random checks for hunting and fishing licenses.
http://arkansasnews.com/news/arkansas/court-ncic-search-violated-hunter-s-rights

It will be interesting to see where the future goes with this and how and if it will effect other State's policies. I would imagine there will be a few cases taken to court in other states using the same argument and case history. Some States make the argument that Game Wardens have the right to check licenses due to Fish and Game being public property. This article from 2013 takes that side and even mentions a hunter safety instructor that was fired basically for teaching his interpretation the same as Arkansas has just ruled.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/how-to/2013/02/27/suppose-you-meet-a-game-warden-in-the-field/
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"Onward up many a frightening creek, though your arms may get sore and your sneakers may leak. Oh! The places you'll go!" ~ Dr. Seuss

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#5852997 - 07/29/15 01:48 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Txduckman Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 11716
Loc: Big D
I read the article a little different. It said they didn't have a right to conduct a criminal investigation by running a background check on him while in the field not violating any laws. They can still check your license if hunting is how I read it. Just can't start going any further than that unless you broke a law obvious to them at the time.

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#5853005 - 07/29/15 03:25 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Sniper John Online   happy

gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16271
Loc: North Texas
This was the article I was actually reading when I posted that. It is a 2015 article, but must have been before the AR Supreme Court Ruling.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ou...3b6d901e02.html

The state appealed, but in the meantime Callaway had to inform wildlife officers that they could no longer do simple license checks.
“There are no exceptions to this rule!” he wrote in an email to his troops. “Just because a person is hunting or fishing is no longer enough to ask someone for their hunting license, firearms or game.”

Forcing wardens to have probable cause or reasonable suspicion before doing a simple license check makes it almost impossible to make sure people are purchasing licenses, although they could still set up roadblock check stations for that purpose, Callaway said.
“It really affects us,” he said. “During fishing season lots of people are out, you walk the bank or get in the boat and check 15, 20 people and go to the next place. Now you’ll have to sit there hours and watch and count and see if they litter or catch too many before you perform a check, and it really becomes a time-consuming matter for us.”
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"Onward up many a frightening creek, though your arms may get sore and your sneakers may leak. Oh! The places you'll go!" ~ Dr. Seuss

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#5853161 - 07/29/15 08:04 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
REALKILLER Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 912
There was a Tx warden that wondered up on a couple of dudes in Upshur co tx through the woods and got held up by gun point. Im not sure if he was in camo or uniform, but the ex I think constable and his son got into a real crack for that. Maybe this will cut back on surprise attacks like sneaking through the woods on foot and surprising hunters at there deer camp. Hey why not drive up, it just seems safer and wiser in a identification kind of way. You walk up to me in the woods and don't look like a law dog, and your armed, you might get a gun pointed at you too. It may be a more peaceful way to do biz if your not treating everybody like a criminal while in the great outdoors. up
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Saw somethin big in grey out there. What is that? Oh #### !! thats a big ol buck. 😆

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#5853163 - 07/29/15 08:05 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
REALKILLER Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 912
their deer camp
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Saw somethin big in grey out there. What is that? Oh #### !! thats a big ol buck. 😆

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#5853222 - 07/29/15 08:41 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Stevarino Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 2069
Loc: Mckinney, TX
I wonder how they'll handle folks engaging in hunts that require federal stamps..

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#5854340 - 07/29/15 06:47 PM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11230
Had a TPWD officer check me last season while dressed in street clothes and working on my tractor near the landowner's barn.

It didn't tick me off near as much as it did the landowner.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#5854760 - 07/29/15 10:11 PM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
It's about time the Constitution was put before game laws, where it belongs.
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#5854793 - 07/29/15 10:43 PM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sneaky]
txshntr Online   content
T-Rex Arms

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 33682
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It's about time the Constitution was put before game laws, where it belongs.


At what point does it become unreasonable? A tip from someone, can they check your deer if it is hanging, should they not even be allowed on your land, road blocks....where is the defining line? If they can't check you, can't enter your property, can't check your live well, can't check your license, how effective will they actually be?

I have never had an issue with a GW checking my license and never had an issue with showing my DL to an officer. I haven't ever read in the constitution where I have a right as an American to drive or hunt.
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#5854858 - 07/29/15 11:40 PM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
The Constitution defines that, not me.

I've never had an issue, either, but some have.

Who said they couldn't check you?

We do have rights to reasonable search and seizure. Has little to do with a right to hunt.
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#5854877 - 07/30/15 01:24 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sneaky]
txshntr Online   content
T-Rex Arms

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 33682
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The Constitution defines that, not me.

I've never had an issue, either, but some have.

Who said they couldn't check you?

We do have rights to reasonable search and seizure. Has little to do with a right to hunt.


Actually, the Constitution doesn't define that. Without getting into a legal debate concerning it, the Constitution provides rights against unreasonable search and seizure, but doesn't define what is "reasonable." Over the years, the Supreme Court has further provided definition and clarification, but it is not defined.

Interesting clarification provided in this quote, but still leaves it open:

Quote:
When an individual does not possess a "reasonable expectation of privacy" that society is willing to acknowledge in a particular piece of property, any interference by the government with regard to that property is not considered a search for Fourth Amendment purposes, and a warrant is never required.


I am far from a scholar in the courts rulings, but just don't see having to show a license when in the act of hunting or fishing as a violation of my Constitutional Rights. I see it as a way for a GW to verify that I am legal when in the act of performing an act that requires the proper documentation.
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#5854938 - 07/30/15 06:30 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 15874
Loc: Winters
I don't see it as a violation, either, and I never expressed that.

Interesting, nonetheless.
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#5854959 - 07/30/15 06:51 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
SniperRAB Online   content
GRAMPS!!!

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 21014
Loc: Nurturing Biosphere Mothership
Easy....I see no issues with it
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#5855011 - 07/30/15 07:44 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41081
Loc: Metroplex
What was the new Texas amendment going in place about hunting and fishing?

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#5855045 - 07/30/15 08:11 AM Re: Interesting change in AR with Game Wardens & illegal search checking licenses [Re: Sniper John]
Western Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23574
Loc: Wise County Texas
I would wager if and when this ends up in district court, or S court, some of it will be struck down, at least the states right to ask to see a license. Licenses are issued as a privilege not a "right" and usually come with some stipulations, one is to produce it when asked by an LEO, as far as drivers and hunting license's. Actually your Texas DL doesn't even belong to you, it is property of the state, you just pay a fee to carry/have it.
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