I didn't read all 4 pages. I will readily admit the weak link in my setup is me. I am about 2MOA at 200 yards for a 5 shot group at the range by my house. The range goes to 600 yards but I have never had the desire to go out that far because I know I do not have the setup/skill for it. Therefore, I don't take any shots at deer much past 250 and have yet to lose a deer. It would kill me to attempt a long shot to only wound and not recover an animal.

TxHgSyr IMO if you want to take that next step in being accurate out to past 100-200 yards...Sounds like you are a prime candidate for a trip to Wolff City, up near McKinney and spend a day out at Jason's "farm" since you have access to be able to actually USE a 600 yard skill set on your range...and MAINTAIN & Improve on the lessons you'll learn...not that you couldn't get there on your own...but having an accomplished teacher ground you the basics of Long Range Shooting is well worth the savings in time and money you'd spend doing it the hard way on your own...Just Sayin
Ron

Preciatcha, Ron.

On my way to the range now after rereading Fireman JG's post again.

I never think about what happens after the gun goes off so today my focus will be on follow through.

one thing I have learned as a professional fishing guide is that the small details and the little things are what brings about success.

And practice practice practice!

When it comes to practical accuracy in the field, 1", 2", 3", 4" whatever the group size doesn't matter. All that matters is can you put a round into the vital area of your animal while you are suffering "buck fever"?...That is an 6-8" kill area. If you can do that, you will have a successful hunt.

Jason..IMO your LR class is a Steal of a Deal no doubt, especially for those folks who Want & WILL USE what they can gain from the class...who have access to some place to shoot and be able to MAINTAIN or Continue the Learning Curve with the input you've given them.

As per usual I look at things not just from the ego boosting/chest beating point of view at hitting something I cannot see well with my naked eye...but at the amount of time and money saved by taking the class to learn this skill level of accuracy really appeals to my Bargain Oriented aka Scots/Hebrew nature.
Ron

Very true, and I appreciate the props.

However, the skills learned/ tweaked to hit the far steel all directly apply to shooting at 100 yards. Guys have checked zero in the morning and shot 1"-2" at 100 yards. Once tweaks are made, reminders are given on trigger control, breathing, follow through, as they work out to 800 yards, then they see the difference it all makes at 100 yards. Some times those 1"-2" groups have been cut in half or better. I also try to get most everyone to shoot from more field positions than prone, using improvised rests. They start the day thinking 400 yards is a far shot. They end the day with having hit 800 prone, and shooting 400 while kneeling on one knee. 400 doesn't seem as tough as it did, and 100-200 feels like a chip shot after having spent the day on much harder shots.

Same as practice with a bow. Shoot some arrows from 60 yards. Come back into 30 yards and it doesn't seem so tough to ruin arrows. It's all just driving home the fundamentals.

I worked hard today on follow through. Finally by the end of the session I started feeling the muscle memory of following through on every shot. The first half of the session I forgot several times. I think my next session it will be finally ingrained and I will work on it hard again to make sure it sticks.

Just 100 yards today.

1st pic is first dozen shots. 223 upper left w/3 power red dot 30 cal lower right 150 gr federal

2nd pic 30 cal 180 gr Fed upper left 30 cal 150 gr Fed upper right

223 on both lowers

I am sure this is probably 4-5 moa but it is better than I started at 7-8 moa. LOL

By next month I plan on being down to 3-4 moa or better

Just gotta keep going!!!





I think those 180 grainers dont do well in my gun. (I think ?) I think the 150's shot a better group but I am hoping you can verify that or are they too similar to make a distinction?

The follow through was also completely different from my AR with the Geiselle TO the bolt action which I assume has a very good trigger. I had a hard time at first adjusting when switching rifles back and forth. Totally different feeling probably because of the lack of kick on the AR. Any recommendations on the difference between the 2 and what my thought process should be on either of them? Or am I overthinking it.


I am also getting to the point where I know from the shot if I was high or low or left. I just can not keep myself still.

Every time yoh switch rifles, and every time you begin to shoot for the day, dry fire the rifle three or four times. Whatever trigger control you had dry firing repeat it with a live round.

makes sense especially since the 2 triggers are like apples and oranges

thanks

That is great advice. I picked up some snap caps for snapping in, to save money and time from the range. Most days, the first 3-4 dry fires my follow through is poor. Crosshairs come off the target almost in sync with the break of the trigger in any kind of realistic shooting position, until I get settled in and "warmed up."

^^Exactly the point of dry firing^^

If when that firing pin clicks you don't still have a rock solid, still position then you wouldn't have made a perfect shot with the rifle. The key you discovered, is you recognize the error you made, and acted to correct it. Some guys have said their rifle shoots differently on a cold bore shot than follow up shots, and in some cases it was cold shooter, thus the reason of dry firing. Sure some rifles with thin barrels may string the next shot, and that may be where the shooter zeroed to. In my opinion the rifle (especially the hunting rifle) needs to be zeroed to the cold bore shot, because that is the hunting shot.

I track this with all my rifles, since all of them get aimed at hide at some point. Every day I shoot I write down date, temp, DA, my wind judgement, and the distance of the shot. If I am shooting at 100 yard paper I write down if my zero had an error in tenths of a Mil. My 6.5 Creedmoor, for instance, is the most consistent shooter so if I start to have a zero shift I will lean toward a brass problem or potentially needing to clean the barrel. If it won't shoot inside a nickle something is up.

I think that this need to 'warm up' on trigger control may be connected with the widely-held perception that a few 'fouling shots' must be fired before a rifle will shoot accurately from a clean barrel.

It could be that I do not see this need for 'fouling shots' because I dry-fire regularly. I might make it to the range a couple of times a week, but I dry-fire the rifle that I am currently working with several times a day from various positions and get the trigger control method burned-in pretty thoroughly.

At the range I generally shoot 20-50 rounds per session in five-shot groups, then at home the rifle is cleaned to the point where the bore-scope shows nothing but steel. - My first group fired most often works out to be just as good (or bad) as the ones that follow. Bench-rest shooters average fifteen rounds between cleaning, and there may be something to that, as when I shoot fifty rounds at a whack I have noticed that the last few groups are often starting to open up a bit.

Besides developing trigger control, another good thing about dry firing is that if you are observant, you also develop the ability to call your shots.

The first three shots out of a cold, clean barrel are the most important, as Fireman JG mentions when he talks about hunting shots.

Of the different rifles that I have had, the one I most regret giving up was a .300 Winchester magnum that was very reliable about putting the first three shots out of a cold, clean barrel into 1/2" at 100 yards, using Federal Premium 180 grain factory loads.

Accuracy in rifles vary quite a bit, even in different examples of the same design. It is quite possible to have a 500 dollar gun out-shoot a 2,000 dollar gun, but the general rule of thumb is that the more expensive rifles are more likely to be good shooters. No matter what you buy though, is going to be subject to the luck of the draw.

This is very good point.. I have not though about it yet it is so obvious.. I have to recheck my zero when the gun is cold because I'm sure I zeroed it when hot (and in 30-06 it gets hot very very fast )

make sure the scope is mounted level with the rifle or you can get stringing left or right of center (but you shouldn't see both). I had this when shooting at 100 it was great, the further back I got, the more off to the right my rounds hit. Re-leveled the scope and all was good.

Just read your comments for the second time. I think I am guilty of some of the things mentioned here.
Really appreciate your wisdom here.

I completely disagree. Clean barrels 99% don't print as good as a fouled barrel. The br world is a perfect example and the gold standard for accuracy. Those guys shoot a set number of rounds then clean and shoot sighted/fouling shots before shooting for record. If a barrel shot just as good clean they would just be scrubbing then shooting with no need of the other target.know that being said some barrels do not show the drastic changes in poi when shot through a clean bore but most do.

^^^This. I generally sight a new rifle pretty close, let it cool and clean. The next session is -usually- two shots. One shot in a vise, move crosshairs to that impact point, re-aim, fire again. Nailed it? Time to go hunting. Didn't do what you thought? Get it closer and start cold barrel process over again. Once I feel good about, I do NOT clean it again unless it starts shooting poorly. I know a guy whose guns are never cleaned till an issue presents itself. They all have hundreds of rounds through them! If he misses it's not normally the rifle. Not saying this is 'best' or 'good', just works for him.

I also think procedures can be different for various uses. My 6.8 was sighted originally for 100 yd. However, me and my friend just like shooting pigs way closer! Because of that, we may or may not keep the 100yd zero but we dang sure shoot targets at 25 and 50 so we know what the round does up close, where we generally encounter our targets. For the longer range rifles, .243 for example, a few long range shots to tell us what the bullet does down range, and the knowledge that our kill zone is generally 8" helps a lot. Longest shots are 300 or fewer yards. I'm not gonna shoot at anything further because I'm probably gonna get closer!

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's just no fun shooting things so far away. I'd rather lose the shot opportunity trying to sneak up on stuff. Not being a blind hunter changes things a bit.