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--- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? #5826271 07/10/15 06:46 PM
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JohnRussell Offline OP
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Ok,, not sure what it would be called.. "year hunting" year lease" etc.

A couple members of my PoA (Property Owners Association) of the ranch is spreading a rumor I am "Day Hunting" my ranch because I bring friends out and "trade work for hunting" which I do not do.

I have a select group of friends that I allow out and access to my ranch any time they want. They have been coming out for like 4 years now. Some have unlimited access, others come out once in a while when we schedule it.

The people that hate me out there, a select few, are spreading a rumor that this is "day Hunting" because I let them hunt.

I fired back that this is not day hunting, this is me letting some friends go out to the ranch and they are fixing things that need to be fixed, period. That is not a requirement, but if they are a burden, they would not be out there.

Thoughts?

Cannot locate a "definition" of Day Hunting"

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826297 07/10/15 06:59 PM
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Day hunting is paying/hunting by the day as opposed to signing a term lease. You'll see them advertised all the time on craigslist, wantads, etc., '$150 day hunt, doe/spike/buck'. If they are paying you with work I can see how it might be considered 'day hunting'. What did you do to anger the neighbors?


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Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826304 07/10/15 07:02 PM
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Russ,

I bought in a subdivision as well North of Rocksprings, and have a restriction against day hunting. I invite friends and family just like you do, and Im sure just like your neighbors do. There is nothing against that.

I would just tell them, " these are my friends and family and have every right to enjoy this place". If you dont charge them anything, then theres nothing really they can do about it.

Also, ask them if there friends and/or family hunt as well. If so, they got nothing to complain about.

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826316 07/10/15 07:07 PM
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They have had a burr up their saddle since like 4 years ago because I started asking questions about how the PoA is run and would not take "you are new, just sit back and watch" as an answer.

They tried telling me where I could build my cabin, and I fought back. They tried tellign me where I could build my gate, and I fought back.

Then I tried to get transparency because people were asking me questions and I could nto answer them so I would keep bringing them up.. and they looked bad, so.. I am an "instigator"

You know the type..they want to run the place and have people bow to them as all knowing and all powerful and once their bubble bursts, they start trying everything they can to make my day bad.

I am not worried about them anymore, they continue to just look like old angry people, but I plan to address this latest bout of rumors with a rebuttal to shut them up.

I just cannot really find a TPWD definition of "Day Hunting". I tried to explain the reason for not allowing day hunts is because there is no accountability with a person that is out there for a day or a few days, hence why it specifies no "Day Hunting" and not "No leasing", period.

I have 3 guys that come out and they bring their families and we all have a good time. One has a tractor.. well, two do.. and they bring them out and cut cedars and fix the roads etc. Another picked up some hog panels to repair a deer pen and they all help build stuff we need, like we all worked on the cabin for 2 years.

They are allowed to hunt, but I define the rules to manage the animals.

To me, that is not "day hunting" nor is it "taking services for allowing them to hunt" this is inviting them out to hunt and we all fix the place up to make it nicer for ALL of us.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826340 07/10/15 07:22 PM
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do a lot of day hunting down at OSBWMA when can afford the permit... Best wishes with the POA flag



i'm postaddic
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826379 07/10/15 07:50 PM
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Russ,
Just curious....is this your section of land that you own exclusively or is this a shared piece of property that you own jointly with others?

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826406 07/10/15 08:07 PM
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It is exclusive. The "ranch" was like 8000 acres, sub-divided and sold off in tracts. We own 4 of them.

The PoA is simply a way for the ranches in the association to collect money for the sole purpose of keeping the roads up.

These folks are the type that are retired and just like HoA nosey people, but on a grander scale. They ran things for like 6 years. Then we bought our ranch and things have gone to hell because we started asking questions which started others asking questions etc.

They liked to keep people in the dark so they could make things up as they went. Now, they are just harassing us and a few loyal friends of theirs are allowing it. As evident, I am fighting back because I don't like being backed into a corner when I am right.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826422 07/10/15 08:27 PM
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If it was/is a mandatory POA you should have been given a copy of the Charter and the By-Lays, read it carefully. If you didn't get copies demand them, it's the law in Texas. Again, read carefully. Maybe you, or one of the neighbors you get along with, needs to run for a spot,or two, on the Board.

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826424 07/10/15 08:27 PM
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So you own some section of the 8000 acres.


I would read the rules as to your abilities. If I owed joint land, which is similar to this. I would not want one person brining his friends over to hunt on the place. If everyone did that the land would be decimated quickly. If this is hunting land I am surprised there would not be harvest restrictions.

Good luck, sounds like a hard situation.

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826429 07/10/15 08:31 PM
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I got a copy and it says yo cannot allow "day hunting". I was on the board, we never met until they got mad and had to meet. Then, no-one got any information from them. Now, the new board is meeting and although those people are on the board, they never show up and refuse to turn any sort of previous information over to the new board, so the new board is starting from scratch and trying to figure it all out.

They are slowly seeing what I have been saying all along, that these people just wanted to keep the information to themselves and run things as they liked and attack anyone that tried to "defy" them.

Not a huge issue. This is just another ploy they have of trying to cause waves in the background.

I called Edwards Count as well as TPWD and defined what "day hunting" means to them and explained what we were doing on my ranch and they agreed that was not even close to the definition.

So, these people are pissing in the wind. I don't mind ignoring them, so long as they do the job they volunteered to do...i.e. run the PoA and stop spending all their time trying to implicate me in some sort of "grand scheme".. heh
Thanks guys, mostly venting.. just a pain.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826435 07/10/15 08:34 PM
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Yeah hoa types things can be a pain


If you are not advertising as a hunt, ie pay me money to kill an animal I think your fine, but I am no legal expert

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: Cleric] #5826443 07/10/15 08:38 PM
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JohnRussell Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
So you own some section of the 8000 acres.


I would read the rules as to your abilities. If I owed joint land, which is similar to this. I would not want one person brining his friends over to hunt on the place. If everyone did that the land would be decimated quickly. If this is hunting land I am surprised there would not be harvest restrictions.

Good luck, sounds like a hard situation.


I own land. We share a road, that is it. Rules are defined and we follow all rules.

We harvest less deer on my 330 acres than many out there that own 50 acres, so we are not violating any land, period. They have no right to any portion of my ranch and cannot by any means dictate who we allow to hunt out there.

They are not doing this for any reason other than to harass me.

An example:

At the same meeting last weekend that they had, someone mentioned we had a bulldozer out at the ranch. 2 people got all fired up about "what the hell is he doing with a bulldozer out there? Who gave him permission to do that?"

The president of the PoA said, "guys, 1 - he does not have a dozer, the people on tract 26 have it" at which point they go, "oh." not "well, what do THEY have it for?" i.e. it was because "WE had it"

Then the PoA president went further to state that if I had TEN dozers out there, it is no-ones business but mine. I can do what I like out there and to stop harassing us.

(the PoA president called me today to explain what was going on).

So, yea.. we are good stewards of the land. With 330 acres, we harvested 3 spikes, 2 does, and 2 bucks this last year. All bucks and doe were over 5 yrs old.

No-one is decimating the land. We also shot 47 hogs last year, 3 Axis, 4 Aoudad, 3 mouflon....and a slew of other 'junk' animals that were infesting the ranch.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: Cleric] #5826454 07/10/15 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
Yeah hoa types things can be a pain


If you are not advertising as a hunt, ie pay me money to kill an animal I think your fine, but I am no legal expert


No, I invited a couple out that are friends and have been for years. We decided that I needed a bigger cabin. then we thought, "think friend A and B want to come too? We could make it so that everyone could bring their families to the place and be comfortable. So, every stand can seat 2-3 people so we can all share the joy of hunting, or just watch animals, with our families.

They had complained that their family restricted them from shooting anything but let other members hunt and I was like, "all I want is company.. and good management practices"

So, we started designing a bigger cabin and it all went from there. We needed a deer stand or two, friend #3 brings out a couple stands he had built with materials he had laying around his 27 acres home.

So.. that is how it all developed.

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5826482 07/10/15 09:00 PM
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Yeah, what you're doing does not constitute 'day hunting'. You're not doing anything wrong, just keep on keeping on. Get copies, attend the meetings, and watch your back.

Depending on how long it's been since they chartered the POA, there's a possibility that it's not even up to legal standards anymore. We just had an attorney review our HOA and we are in that boat. It came up because we tried to file a lien on a HO that failed to pay dues for two straight years, and the county clerk told us to pound sand until we were up to date.


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Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #5826495 07/10/15 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Yeah, what you're doing does not constitute 'day hunting'. You're not doing anything wrong, just keep on keeping on. Get copies, attend the meetings, and watch your back.

Depending on how long it's been since they chartered the POA, there's a possibility that it's not even up to legal standards anymore. We just had an attorney review our HOA and we are in that boat. It came up because we tried to file a lien on a HO that failed to pay dues for two straight years, and the county clerk told us to pound sand until we were up to date.


I'm impressed. Most County Clerks aren't that on top of things.

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5830396 07/13/15 08:48 PM
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I ended up sending out a message to most the owners, which included a few of the board members. Essentially telling them what we were doing and what I had been told by the Texas departments.

I then told them if they thought I was a pain in the [censored] when I was trying to be nice, imagine what I will be like if they kept poking me.

I made a few polite but firm comments about the goals and functions of the PoA and reminded them by including the minutes to the board meetings etc,. and told them if they felt like pursuing this, I would take any and all legal remedies allowed to me by law.

Outside of that, grow up and knock it off.

Not a peep out of any of them so far.. lol

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5830559 07/13/15 10:21 PM
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To amplify what QSYB said POAs are required to document their meetings to be in compliance with the law. I suspect that, they are way out of compliance, which would give you a lot of legal leverage.


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5830697 07/13/15 11:40 PM
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Oh they are. I have been V.P. of two publicly traded companies and personally worked on multiple Sarbanes-Oxley initial filings so am well versed on the working and trappings of corporate paperwork. That is how it all started, me trying to help them in compliance issues and trying to explain where a disgruntled owner that owed back payments of fees might have an "in" to fighting if they tried to file a lien. They did not listen and were flat out telling me I had not "been here long enough so should just sit back and let them handle things" to which I replied, "I pay my payments and own my ranch. There is not a time limit on standing up to say there is something that needs to be addressed. They did not like that and so continue to harass me.

As with all persons in this type of situation, it never ceases to amaze me. The guy that tells you how not to act to keep from getting bitten in the back end is the person you try to mess with....not exactly smart in any book.

Thanks guys.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5830828 07/14/15 01:00 AM
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WOW!!! Just wow!!!!
I just thought I heard it all.
Sad day when you own 300+ acres and have to do or not to do what you want with your own land!!!
I have never heard of such!!! crazy

Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5830847 07/14/15 01:22 AM
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Well, it's ok.. we agreed to the whole "no day hunting" thing, but that is as far as it goes.

Nowadays, it's pretty common that the smaller tracts band together to maintain the roads to get to their tracts. In doing such, they have to have some sort of organized means of managing the 'partnership'. The problem is when a few of the people start thinking they are the tail that wags the dog.

Just gotta be willing to cut them off at the back end :P

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5832527 07/15/15 03:57 AM
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Your arrangement is not day hunting. It's absurd to say it is. I wouldn't concern myself over it my friend.

Is it still green out your way Russ?


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Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5832928 07/15/15 04:28 PM
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It sure is! We are up to about 10k gallons of water in the tanks now.

You guys need to come out and shoot some more hogs and an axis again.. heh

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5833871 07/16/15 10:51 AM
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So, let me get this strait, you are day leasing, get caught day leasing, and come here so peeps can tell you you're not day leasing?


calm down, I'm kidding













grin


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Re: --- NEED HELP --- What is Day Hunting vs Year Hunting? [Re: JohnRussell] #5833873 07/16/15 10:55 AM
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Check, check, and check...lol

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
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