I think at least 4 or 5 rounds should be put down a clean barrel before any kind of testing, zeroing or verification of zero takes place. Ideally, you'd have 10+ rounds down the tube. My personal experience has been that the first round out of a clean bore usually has a mind of its own.

Heres the scenario. Have a rifle that was shooting 1/2 to 3/4 MOA, and after 400 rounds it is now shooting 1 to 1 1/4 MOA, you know it has a good zero inside that 1 1/4 MOA, and you clean it.

Back to the range fire your clean cold bore (CCB) make note of where the shot landed. Then record shots #2 through as many as it takes until it starts to return to zero and/ or group back to 1/2 to 3/4 MOA, as it was before. Every rifle will be different, but all of mine take more than 5 shots before they are behaving properly, some have taken 20 rounds.

I only clean when the rifle tells me it needs it, and then I only remove carbon with MPro-7. I do not remove copper through the life of the barrel.

Heres the scenario. Have a rifle that was shooting 1/2 to 3/4 MOA, and after 400 rounds it is now shooting 1 to 1 1/4 MOA, you know it has a good zero inside that 1 1/4 MOA, and you clean it.

I only clean when the rifle tells me it needs it, and then I only remove carbon with MPro-7. I do not remove copper through the life of the barrel.

sooo is this a sign of your thoughts on barrel break in as well...

I only clean when the rifle tells me it needs it, and then I only remove carbon with MPro-7. I do not remove copper through the life of the barrel.

Did you post that backwards by mistake? Copper fouling is the enemy of accuracy. You want to keep the copper out and let a good layer of carbon coat the bore.

If your barrel will not shoot well when clean, packing it up with copper and carbon build-up is not the answer. This is why the primary feature of a proper barrel break-in is cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning. If you do not let copper build up inside the barrel, subsequent rounds will all do their part to polish and even out the barrels interior so that it does not collect contaminants so readily.

Copper in the bore is significantly softer than steel, in fact it is bullet jacket material and when similar metals are rubbed against each other at high speed, you get - galling.

Galling in a rifle bore roughs up the bullet jacket in some places but not in others. Metal is removed in some spots and glommed on in others. This is not conducive to good accuracy.

If your barrel will not shoot well when clean, packing it up with copper and carbon build-up is not the answer. This is why the primary feature of a proper barrel break-in is cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning. If you do not let copper build up inside the barrel, subsequent rounds will all do their part to polish and even out the barrels interior so that it does not collect contaminants so readily.

The idea that a rifle barrel must be contaminated with copper and/or carbon in order to shoot well is redneck 'science' that ignores the basics of metallurgy. At best, such practices are a kind of hillbilly band-aid to cover up for a rifle barrel that was never broken-in or cleaned properly.

Kind of like a kitten pathetically attempting to cover up the mess that it just made on the carpet.

My Winchester 1885 in 270 WSM is a good example... I clean it to the point where no copper or carbon is detectable with a bore-scope after each shooting session. This never takes long since I do not let it build up. This Winchester is a hunting rifle, not a thirty pound bench-rest gun - and yet I typically get 1/2" (or less) five-shot groups at 100 yards out of this rifle. My best so far was flinched in to .317", center to center. It shoots that well because it was properly broken in, and is shot from a squeaky-clean state.

Same thing with my old Browning stainless stalker in .300 Winchester magnum. The gun was broken in properly, and kept clean. - And it was reliable about putting the first three rounds out of a cold, clean barrel into 1/2" at 100 yards.

Same thing with my Savage model 16 in .243 Winchester. - Broken in properly and kept clean, this rifle also delivered 1/2" or smaller 100 yard groups on a reliable, regular basis.

So, either I have been incredibly lucky with these rifles - or one might want to consider that there is something beneficial to be had from properly breaking in a rifle barrel, and keeping it clean thereafter.

This is not to say that I have never had an inaccurate rifle. - I've had my share. The worst were used guns that had seldom been cleaned, and in some cases, new guns that just never did shoot well. - But the guns that have been the most accurate by far have been the ones that were broken in and maintained properly, in each and every case.

Before I learned how to treat a fine rifle, I used to feel really lucky if I could get one to shoot into 1" at 100 yards... Now I'm spoiled to expect much better accuracy than that.

Copper in the bore is significantly softer than steel, in fact it is bullet jacket material and when similar metals are rubbed against each other at high speed, you get - galling.

Galling in a rifle bore roughs up the bullet jacket in some places but not in others. Metal is removed in some spots and glommed on in others. This is not conducive to good accuracy.

If your barrel will not shoot well when clean, packing it up with copper and carbon build-up is not the answer. This is why the primary feature of a proper barrel break-in is cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning. If you do not let copper build up inside the barrel, subsequent rounds will all do their part to polish and even out the barrels interior so that it does not collect contaminants so readily.

The idea that a rifle barrel must be contaminated with copper and/or carbon in order to shoot well is redneck 'science' that ignores the basics of metallurgy. At best, such practices are a kind of hillbilly band-aid to cover up for a rifle barrel that was never broken-in or cleaned properly.

Kind of like a kitten pathetically attempting to cover up the mess that it just made on the carpet.

My Winchester 1885 in 270 WSM is a good example... I clean it to the point where no copper or carbon is detectable with a bore-scope after each shooting session. This never takes long since I do not let it build up. This Winchester is a hunting rifle, not a thirty pound bench-rest gun - and yet I typically get 1/2" (or less) five-shot groups at 100 yards out of this rifle. My best so far was flinched in to .317", center to center. It shoots that well because it was properly broken in, and is shot from a squeaky-clean state.

Same thing with my old Browning stainless stalker in .300 Winchester magnum. The gun was broken in properly, and kept clean. - And it was reliable about putting the first three rounds out of a cold, clean barrel into 1/2" at 100 yards.

Same thing with my Savage model 16 in .243 Winchester. - Broken in properly and kept clean, this rifle also delivered 1/2" or smaller 100 yard groups on a reliable, regular basis.

So, either I have been incredibly lucky with these rifles - or one might want to consider that there is something beneficial to be had from properly breaking in a rifle barrel, and keeping it clean thereafter.

This is not to say that I have never had an inaccurate rifle. - I've had my share. The worst were used guns that had seldom been cleaned, and in some cases, new guns that just never did shoot well. - But the guns that have been the most accurate by far have been the ones that were broken in and maintained properly, in each and every case.

Before I learned how to treat a fine rifle, I used to feel really lucky if I could get one to shoot into 1" at 100 yards... Now I'm spoiled to expect much better accuracy than that.

Seems to me that unless you clean the barrel thoroughly after every shot going with the fould accuracy is more practical reliable consistent and much easier.

BINGO!!!


Aint nobody got time for that.