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Snakes and Dogs - Training
#5803178
06/24/15 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150
kry226
OP
The General
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OP
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150 |
In anticipation of purchasing a gun dog once I hang these boots up and settle down, I poke my nose in here from time to time to catch up and ask an elementary question or two. I've had dogs before, but I was a lot younger, and they were pets. Never had my own gun dog and certainly never in snake country. We'll probably end up with a GSP professionally trained for quail (and an occasional dove retrieve) and we'll be living at our place in the panhandle. So far, I'm sold on the rattler vaccine and avoidance classes. But my wife and I have two younger children (currently 10 and 7 years) and of course I have a great concern for them regarding snake bites. They each have a good pair of chaps and will have snake boots eventually, but wearing them 100% of the time or every time they walk outside isn't very practical. (I saw the pic of the cottonmouth on Wal's porch ). Here's where I need advice and an azimuth check: While I certainly want my dog to avoid the snake and potential bite, I don't want the dog turning inside out and running and hiding under the truck. I would like the dog to alert me to the snake with a healthy dose of "freak out" but stay in the neighborhood while I get the nearest dose of snake medicine. I don't want my dog bitten, it's family of course. But I desire much less having my wife and kids bitten. Last November, I killed four rattlers within 24 hours and all within 20 yards of my wife and kids. Two of the rattlers were 15 inch yearlings and one rattled at me from 10 feet away all coiled up in his "strike pose". The largest one, a 4 footer with nine rattles and a button, let me get within 12 inches of him before rattling. There's no telling how many more were around that I didn't see. I would like a dog trained to avoid being bitten but also able to keep the snake located for me for dispatch. Are these wants or expectations reasonable? Is it reasonable to ask this of any dog, much less a GSP? Thanks in advance for entertaining what might be a dumb, long winded question.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803360
06/24/15 01:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,938
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,938 |
After spending hours and days hunting with my dogs, I am almost always able to read their body language when near a snake. I don't know how many times I have been hunting behind my Vizsla and say "there is a snake in there" and be right. I never dispatch a snake in front of the dog BTW. Just "leave it" and move on. My thought on it is from repetition on shooting game a dog's instinct is going to be to hunt what you shoot in front of it.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803370
06/24/15 01:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 3,059 |
Yes the dog should indicate somehow there is a snake there. The problem is they won't always be able to and the can get bite.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: MS1454]
#5803417
06/24/15 02:29 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,594
First_Chance
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This is kind of a catch-22 thing in that you are training a dog to "avoid" and encounter with a snake, but would like to have the dog alert you to it's presence. I've been around plenty of house, ranch and hunting dogs that will bark and go nuts if a snake comes up into the yard or pen areas, but I don't believe I have ever seen a hunting dog stop and bark at a snake while hunting birds. Typically, like Sniper said, it's a subtle reaction from the dog that you would only see by knowing the dog and recognizing it when they show an out of character reaction like turning their head and making a non-graceful abrupt move downwind when typically a gun dog will get pulled around by it's nose into the wind.
The school of thought for the most part is if the dog is trained to avoid snakes, then by following your dog or working through the area that he has worked through, then it is rare that you will encounter a snake.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803536
06/24/15 03:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416 |
I've seen less than a half dozen snakes in my 50 years of hunting in Texas. I had one dog that jumped back on her first encounter. I was a couple hundred yards away. I figured what it was when she jumped. I have killed two.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803584
06/24/15 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150
kry226
OP
The General
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OP
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150 |
Points well taken. Thanks.
As far as alerting on the snake, I may have not been as clear as I should have been in the OP. I'm not really talking about during hunting, but actually just around the house and barns where my family would frequent. Yes the dog will be a gun dog, but also a friend to the kids when they're playing outside, etc.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803604
06/24/15 04:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 866
Catch Dog
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 866 |
Kyle is will give you one of my black mouth curs, you won't have to worry if a snake comes around cause they will raise hell until you shoot it.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: Catch Dog]
#5803666
06/24/15 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150
kry226
OP
The General
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OP
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150 |
Kyle is will give you one of my black mouth curs, you won't have to worry if a snake comes around cause they will raise hell until you shoot it. Much obliged, Jason. I may have to take you up on that.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5803691
06/24/15 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
Veteran Tracker
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If you do snake avoidance, I would think the dog will not do Mich other than run the opposite way.mine will bark and mess with so it's easy for me to know when and where they are in the yard
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: Sniper John]
#5803697
06/24/15 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 175
rborn
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 175 |
After spending hours and days hunting with my dogs, I am almost always able to read their body language when near a snake. I don't know how many times I have been hunting behind my Vizsla and say "there is a snake in there" and be right. I never dispatch a snake in front of the dog BTW. Just "leave it" and move on. My thought on it is from repetition on shooting game a dog's instinct is going to be to hunt what you shoot in front of it. Sir, well said concerning not dispatching in front of your dog.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5813387
07/01/15 06:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788
wal1809
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,788 |
In anticipation of purchasing a gun dog once I hang these boots up and settle down, I poke my nose in here from time to time to catch up and ask an elementary question or two. I've had dogs before, but I was a lot younger, and they were pets. Never had my own gun dog and certainly never in snake country. We'll probably end up with a GSP professionally trained for quail (and an occasional dove retrieve) and we'll be living at our place in the panhandle. So far, I'm sold on the rattler vaccine and avoidance classes. But my wife and I have two younger children (currently 10 and 7 years) and of course I have a great concern for them regarding snake bites. They each have a good pair of chaps and will have snake boots eventually, but wearing them 100% of the time or every time they walk outside isn't very practical. (I saw the pic of the cottonmouth on Wal's porch ). Here's where I need advice and an azimuth check: While I certainly want my dog to avoid the snake and potential bite, I don't want the dog turning inside out and running and hiding under the truck. I would like the dog to alert me to the snake with a healthy dose of "freak out" but stay in the neighborhood while I get the nearest dose of snake medicine. I don't want my dog bitten, it's family of course. But I desire much less having my wife and kids bitten. Last November, I killed four rattlers within 24 hours and all within 20 yards of my wife and kids. Two of the rattlers were 15 inch yearlings and one rattled at me from 10 feet away all coiled up in his "strike pose". The largest one, a 4 footer with nine rattles and a button, let me get within 12 inches of him before rattling. There's no telling how many more were around that I didn't see. I would like a dog trained to avoid being bitten but also able to keep the snake located for me for dispatch. Are these wants or expectations reasonable? Is it reasonable to ask this of any dog, much less a GSP? Thanks in advance for entertaining what might be a dumb, long winded question. What your asking is not going to happen, at least not on purpose. The training is a one time deal may be two per year. You have to get a heavy payload so far as correction, while you have that opportunity. From the minute that correction occurs, all equations are changing. Much like that toy game called Jenga. Time is also a factor as the training starts to fade over a year period for some, never for others. Could we train into the dog what you desire, sure. Would it be worth months of training above and beyond what you are already purchasing. Even then you would have to find a trainer willing to handle that type of training. I for one would not take on that task as there are way too many pieces to a puzzle like that.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5813911
07/01/15 11:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,877
blanked
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,877 |
As mentioned the dog is going to avoid the snake Kids playing in the yard are not going to be paying attention to this detail. I say keep the grass short and wood picked up. What's left over that is snakey tell the kids to stay out of it
Last edited by blanked; 07/01/15 11:43 PM.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5814220
07/02/15 02:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
Mike Honcho
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183 |
Do most of yalls gun dogs avoid snakes? My lab (Bo) who has been a great retrieving companion for dove and occassional duck NEVER avoids snakes. In fact i notice them wayyy before he does. Bo is actually clueless. Ive always worried about this.
“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5814690
07/02/15 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150
kry226
OP
The General
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OP
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150 |
I appreciate the feedback, gents. Thanks.
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: kry226]
#5828830
07/12/15 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 755
catchrcall
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 755 |
We see several rattlers a year while we're hog hunting, and you can usually tell whats there by how the dog acts. They'll perk up for a second until they figure out what it is and then go around it usually. That's indicator enough for us to find it if need be most of the time. I haven't had one yet that was bad to mess with a snake but if and when I do I'll have him boxed up and rolling toward a clinic as soon as I can. I can't imagine that a snake bite vet bill is cheaper than an avoidance class.
Pretty much I just tell my boys that if the dog won't walk there you don't walk there either.
I have one old dog that stays with the kids a lot that will raise cane if he sees a snake and they're around, but that's just how he is. He's one of those once in a lifetime dogs that thinks our kids and property are his responsibility too and I have no idea how you'd train that.
Last edited by catchrcall; 07/12/15 09:32 PM.
Stand up for your rights to own and hunt with dogs Join the Lonestar Working Dog Association www.lswda.org
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Re: Snakes and Dogs - Training
[Re: catchrcall]
#5829455
07/13/15 07:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150
kry226
OP
The General
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OP
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,150 |
We see several rattlers a year while we're hog hunting, and you can usually tell whats there by how the dog acts. They'll perk up for a second until they figure out what it is and then go around it usually. That's indicator enough for us to find it if need be most of the time. I haven't had one yet that was bad to mess with a snake but if and when I do I'll have him boxed up and rolling toward a clinic as soon as I can. I can't imagine that a snake bite vet bill is cheaper than an avoidance class.
Pretty much I just tell my boys that if the dog won't walk there you don't walk there either.
I have one old dog that stays with the kids a lot that will raise cane if he sees a snake and they're around, but that's just how he is. He's one of those once in a lifetime dogs that thinks our kids and property are his responsibility too and I have no idea how you'd train that. Thanks for the feedback.
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